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someoldguy  
#1 Posted : Saturday, April 14, 2018 6:32:02 AM(UTC)
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After months and months of not seeing any permanent positions higher than GG-10 on the DIA jobs web site, in the past couple weeks a few have appeared. First a couple of CI positions, now a HUMINT position and a Mission Management job... not to mention a number of positions for faculty members. Granted, these look like rather specific requirements, so maybe that's what it takes for a hiring manager to convince HR that they can't get by with an entry level hire.

Is this a change? Seems like the only positions on there for a long time were either entry level hiring events or non-permanent positions. Are they realizing that they can't meet all their hiring needs with new grads, folks with no intel background, and others willing to apply for entry level positions?

We'll have to see if this trend continues... if it constitutes a trend at all.
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ringslider on 4/15/2018(UTC)
TMHTE  
#2 Posted : Saturday, April 14, 2018 7:28:17 AM(UTC)
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I don't know but at some point they're gonna have to stop hiring people. For one long period of time the agency went years without hiring anybody.
Chevy82  
#3 Posted : Saturday, April 14, 2018 9:14:02 AM(UTC)
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I was just told due to reduced demand it would be 6-18 months for an FJO. And they have 3 instructor positions at JCITA.

I don’t think there’s any *****ing planning.
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ringslider on 4/15/2018(UTC), rebels8 on 4/16/2018(UTC)
Klondike  
#4 Posted : Saturday, April 14, 2018 12:05:46 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Chevy82 Go to Quoted Post
I was just told due to reduced demand it would be 6-18 months for an FJO. And they have 3 instructor positions at JCITA.

I don’t think there’s any *****ing planning.


Where'd you hear that from? And for what career fields?
Yukon3  
#5 Posted : Saturday, April 14, 2018 12:18:59 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Chevy82 Go to Quoted Post
6-18 months for an FJO
I believe it. Someone close to me had to literally smack me in the *****ing face for being so comfortable moving nowhere. This wait will suck the life out of you.

For recent grads, if you are on the cleared list with a CJO in HUMINT or MM, move on. You don’t have to remove yourself from the pool, but that clearance eligibility is super valuable in the private sector. It took me way too long to realize that.

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ringslider on 4/15/2018(UTC), rebels8 on 4/16/2018(UTC)
ringslider  
#6 Posted : Sunday, April 15, 2018 6:33:36 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Chevy82 Go to Quoted Post
I was just told due to reduced demand it would be 6-18 months for an FJO. And they have 3 instructor positions at JCITA.

I don’t think there’s any *****ing planning.



Now this doesn't make any sense. Why would an agency go thru the process of sending hiring invitations, giving CJOs, to later bring candidates in for polys, BI, give them TS and clear them to let them wait on a holding pattern for months?

I've seen the announcements in USAJOBS for grades 12 thru 14 in the last few days so probably there will be people within the agency applying for them allowing for managers to start calling and offering FJOs for those positions that are vacant within the 9 thru 11 grades. This could be seen as positive move on their part to alleviate the backlog of new hires that they have. Honestly, I just don't see how someone hasn't mention that they have so many people cleared in the hiring pool awaiting for a FJO.
someoldguy  
#7 Posted : Sunday, April 15, 2018 6:49:30 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: ringslider Go to Quoted Post
Why would an agency go thru the process of sending hiring invitations, giving CJOs, to later bring candidates in for polys, BI, give them TS and clear them to let them wait on a holding pattern for months?

If you ask me (and I'll just pretend that you did), I think it is because of a massive disconnect between HR and the rest of the organization. HR says, you told us to find a bunch of candidates, so we did. But the hiring managers say, we can't find the people we need in this hiring pool.

It has been noted that by focusing not on previous intelligence experience but on potential for success, the agency can bring in a much broader range of backgrounds and experience. But the hiring managers who are on the hook to get the job done may be saying, we need that experience, and to get that experience, we need to offer higher grades.

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ringslider on 4/15/2018(UTC), rebels8 on 4/16/2018(UTC)
ringslider  
#8 Posted : Sunday, April 15, 2018 6:57:39 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: someoldguy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ringslider Go to Quoted Post
Why would an agency go thru the process of sending hiring invitations, giving CJOs, to later bring candidates in for polys, BI, give them TS and clear them to let them wait on a holding pattern for months?

If you ask me (and I'll just pretend that you did), I think it is because of a massive disconnect between HR and the rest of the organization. HR says, you told us to find a bunch of candidates, so we did. But the hiring managers say, we can't find the people we need in this hiring pool.

It has been noted that by focusing not on previous intelligence experience but on potential for success, the agency can bring in a much broader range of backgrounds and experience. But the hiring managers who are on the hook to get the job done may be saying, we need that experience, and to get that experience, we need to offer higher grades.



I don't think that you are wrong on this. It's not the first time that this happens to this agency or any particular job. If the agency is asking HR to send out a memo to hire new personnel without any guidance, then HR will do what it normally does: send out the memo to hire new candidates with basic qualifications. That's it. It's not their fault (HR), that DIA got a huge number of people applying and showing up to those events.

The Hiring Managers are going to have a hard time trying to get their mission done unless they start properly planning what they need instead of what they think they want.
TMHTE  
#9 Posted : Monday, April 16, 2018 3:49:01 AM(UTC)
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I know that to be a fact. I remember on my last month of being a contractor, my boss at Reston pitched me an offer to keep working there as a gov because the hiring managers "didn't like the available resumes." They basically wanted to hire somebody who was already familiar with the agency's writing style/formats, and track record of production. This is why you see a lot of people who worked at DIA as contractors before going gov.

It's nothing personal, just the bosses trying to play the demographics. No matter how much experience or education one has, the DIA way of producing is very specific and can only be learned by experience at the agency. Much easier to hire somebody who won't need 5-6 months to get up to speed with the processes, procedures, etc.

I know this also contradicts the goal of bringing in fresh blood at the agency vice relying on the "no colonel left behind" program. It seems hiring managers want it both ways; fresh(ish) blood with directly relevant experience, which isn't easy to find.

Edited by user Monday, April 16, 2018 3:50:55 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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rebels8 on 4/16/2018(UTC)
someoldguy  
#10 Posted : Monday, April 16, 2018 3:53:23 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: TMHTE Go to Quoted Post
They basically wanted to hire somebody who was already familiar with the agency's writing style/formats, and track record of production.

Shocking!

Originally Posted by: TMHTE Go to Quoted Post
It seems hiring managers want it both ways; fresh(ish) blood with directly relevant experience, which isn't easy to find.

In industry we used to joke about the ideal candidate being a new grad with 5-7 years experience. Oh and a current/active SCI clearance. Yet willing to work for new grad pay.
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rebels8 on 4/16/2018(UTC)
TMHTE  
#11 Posted : Monday, April 16, 2018 4:10:04 AM(UTC)
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The sad thing is, that's not a joke. Lots of us out here with advanced degrees and 10+ years of experience getting hired as low 10s lol.

I can't blame the hiring managers entirely. Like everyone else, they are under the gun to show the money or their branch will eventually cease to exist come the next reorg. Produce or perish. Even a great education isn't a guarantee of a good producer. I worked with a gov who was an Ivy Leaguer and he went 7+ months without writing anything. He was dead weight but couldn't be fired as he was well past probation. So what do hiring managers want? Proof that you won't be dead weight via quality/quantity metrics. It's unfair to those who will be hard workers regardless but they have no way of knowing that until you're already hired.

Edited by user Monday, April 16, 2018 4:13:21 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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rebels8 on 4/16/2018(UTC)
ringslider  
#12 Posted : Monday, April 16, 2018 6:02:39 AM(UTC)
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Got the same answer again (no surprise there), smdh.
rebels8  
#13 Posted : Monday, April 16, 2018 11:54:26 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Yukon3 Go to Quoted Post


For recent grads, if you are on the cleared list with a CJO in HUMINT or MM, move on. You don’t have to remove yourself from the pool, but that clearance eligibility is super valuable in the private sector. It took me way too long to realize that.



Originally Posted by: TMHTE Go to Quoted Post
This is why you see a lot of people who worked at DIA as contractors before going gov.


Well for people who are languishing on the cleared list, this seems to be the best way to get their foot in the door at DIA.

Originally Posted by: TMHTE Go to Quoted Post
It seems hiring managers want it both ways; fresh(ish) blood with directly relevant experience, which isn't easy to find.


But as many people as DIA seems to want to hire, can't they have a mix of both? Some fresh blood and some people with directly relevant experience?
#MMlivesmatter
someoldguy  
#14 Posted : Tuesday, April 17, 2018 1:02:47 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: rebels8 Go to Quoted Post
But as many people as DIA seems to want to hire, can't they have a mix of both? Some fresh blood and some people with directly relevant experience?

That would seem to be the answer, and with some positions opening up at more senior grades, maybe that's what they're going to do. Have to see if this trend continues.

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someoldguy  
#15 Posted : Tuesday, April 17, 2018 2:19:47 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: auspex Go to Quoted Post
As far as trends, people with past federal experience know about seasonal cycles related to postings internal and external. There's a rhythm. Fluxing in new hires at low grades lets them move higher grades out of those overpaid low billets and really assess needs. That's all.

Maybe, but as someone who spent much of the past three years scouring the DIA jobs board, there have been very very few permanent postings for ANYTHING.

And what about when they take a job that was formerly a 14 level job, wave their magic wand, and say, this position is now a 12? Or take a 12 down to a 9? Almost sounds like cooking the books.

Oh and one more thing: no, you're not going to take someone with little or no experience and expect a hiring manager to pick them up for a billet at the 12 level (or higher). That's why we see all these folks with CJO's in Mission Management stuck in hiring pool limbo: so many of those jobs are coded 12 or higher.

Edited by user Tuesday, April 17, 2018 2:57:19 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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rebels8 on 4/17/2018(UTC)
auspex  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, April 18, 2018 3:03:53 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: someoldguy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: auspex Go to Quoted Post
As far as trends, people with past federal experience know about seasonal cycles related to postings internal and external. There's a rhythm. Fluxing in new hires at low grades lets them move higher grades out of those overpaid low billets and really assess needs. That's all.

Maybe, but as someone who spent much of the past three years scouring the DIA jobs board, there have been very very few permanent postings for ANYTHING.

And what about when they take a job that was formerly a 14 level job, wave their magic wand, and say, this position is now a 12? Or take a 12 down to a 9? Almost sounds like cooking the books.

Oh and one more thing: no, you're not going to take someone with little or no experience and expect a hiring manager to pick them up for a billet at the 12 level (or higher). That's why we see all these folks with CJO's in Mission Management stuck in hiring pool limbo: so many of those jobs are coded 12 or higher.


Yep.
TMHTE  
#17 Posted : Thursday, April 19, 2018 3:09:55 AM(UTC)
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Are we talking about bringing in people as straight 12s or putting them in 12 billets? I'm in a 12 billet, just have to wait another year to be promotable to 12 lol.

someoldguy  
#18 Posted : Thursday, April 19, 2018 12:35:42 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: TMHTE Go to Quoted Post
Are we talking about bringing in people as straight 12s or putting them in 12 billets? I'm in a 12 billet, just have to wait another year to be promotable to 12 lol.

I'm talking about bringing new hires from the outside in as something higher than a 10.

Good news about your billet. I'm only in an 11 slot. Maybe a year from now I'll be worrying about finding a 12...

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madman21  
#19 Posted : Thursday, April 19, 2018 7:05:29 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: someoldguy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TMHTE Go to Quoted Post
Are we talking about bringing in people as straight 12s or putting them in 12 billets? I'm in a 12 billet, just have to wait another year to be promotable to 12 lol.

I'm talking about bringing new hires from the outside in as something higher than a 10.

Good news about your billet. I'm only in an 11 slot. Maybe a year from now I'll be worrying about finding a 12...



Screw the both of you.....bragging about billets, and being all employed and sh*t.....lol
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