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martymcfly  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, May 15, 2018 5:40:00 PM(UTC)
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CCA that is a 204b, can they be involved? What happens if they show up at a meeting?
CRAFTYCLERK7  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, May 15, 2018 5:58:30 PM(UTC)
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No they can't.
postalvet  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, May 15, 2018 7:20:07 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: martymcfly Go to Quoted Post
CCA that is a 204b, can they be involved? What happens if they show up at a meeting?



involved in what?


if they show up at a union meeting they should be asked to leave
Postal employee (retired) 38 yrs who helps even if some do not believe me! I was a Steward, officer & trouble maker. Just Sayin'
GreenSteward  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, May 16, 2018 2:29:40 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: postalvet Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: martymcfly Go to Quoted Post
CCA that is a 204b, can they be involved? What happens if they show up at a meeting?



involved in what?


if they show up at a union meeting they should be asked to leave



I was always told the opposite. For the most part 204bs pay union dues so why couln't they go to the meetings? Is there a difference between the 204b that occasionally covers for a supervisor or a 204b that is a semi-permanent one that would be in 204b status the day of a meeting?

Minnesota Postmaster  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, May 16, 2018 4:15:52 AM(UTC)
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I would guess that there is no rule about this. However, it would be improper to attend a meeting. A 204b is an acting supervisor, which is a member of mgmt, therefore it would be idiotic.
Just because you are paranoid does not mean that they are not out to get you
postalvet  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, May 16, 2018 5:56:44 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: GreenSteward Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: postalvet Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: martymcfly Go to Quoted Post
CCA that is a 204b, can they be involved? What happens if they show up at a meeting?



involved in what?


if they show up at a union meeting they should be asked to leave



I was always told the opposite. For the most part 204bs pay union dues so why couln't they go to the meetings? Is there a difference between the 204b that occasionally covers for a supervisor or a 204b that is a semi-permanent one that would be in 204b status the day of a meeting?



take a 204b to a union meeting and find out!


then when they report back to management what went on let us know how that works out!
Postal employee (retired) 38 yrs who helps even if some do not believe me! I was a Steward, officer & trouble maker. Just Sayin'
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mnmailman on 5/16/2018(UTC)
roger.d  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, May 16, 2018 8:01:33 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Minnesota Postmaster Go to Quoted Post
I would guess that there is no rule about this. However, it would be improper to attend a meeting. A 204b is an acting supervisor, which is a member of mgmt, therefore it would be idiotic.


This.

Unless someone can show otherwise in writing.

I know some that was a 204B for medical reasons. He chose not to attend Union meetings out of respect.

Once he was healthy and back to doing craft work, he startedto attend meetings again.

Of course the rule on being an officer stood.
craigrh13  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, May 16, 2018 9:00:48 AM(UTC)
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Then a union member filling in as a 204b should be exempt from paying union dues since they are looked at as being so evil. Then again, the union still wants their money so that will never happen.
TETastic  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, May 16, 2018 10:47:56 AM(UTC)
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Why? The 204b still benefits from the union and takes up an assignment. They can do without the free pizza once a month.
MPE2009  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:24:33 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: craigrh13 Go to Quoted Post
Then a union member filling in as a 204b should be exempt from paying union dues since they are looked at as being so evil. Then again, the union still wants their money so that will never happen.


Craig it has nothing to do with being looked upon as evil. Don't twist the facts of this discussion to the point that it becomes stupid. A 204b is a member of management for the time they have a 1723 for. Much of what is said at a meeting pertains to union members and is often sensitive in nature. Sometimes people like to vent among their peers. Neither a 204b nor the members should be put in that position of a member of mgt attending a meeting uninvited. It's simply a conflict of interest.
thanks 5 users thanked MPE2009 for this useful post.
mnmailman on 5/16/2018(UTC), Hannah Blector on 5/16/2018(UTC), CRAFTYCLERK7 on 5/16/2018(UTC), postalvet on 5/16/2018(UTC), RodOrRob on 5/16/2018(UTC)
Hannah Blector  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:41:28 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: martymcfly Go to Quoted Post
CCA that is a 204b, can they be involved? What happens if they show up at a meeting?


Showing up should result in a polite reminder that they are not welcome.

If they don't leave--a pummeling.

204bs are paying management dues, not union dues.
Razanur  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:59:24 PM(UTC)
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NALC Constitution Article 2 Section 1 wrote:
(c). present members who have left the Postal
Service, or have been temporarily or permanently
promoted to supervisory status, may retain their
membership but shall be members only for the pur-
pose of membership in the NALC Life Insurance
Plan and/or the NALC Health Benefit Plan. These
members shall have no voice or vote in any of the
affairs of such Branch, except they shall have a
voice and vote at the Branch level upon matters
appertaining to the NALC Life Insurance Plan,
and/or the NALC Health Benefit Plan, if they are a
member thereof, and on any proposition to raise
dues. These members are not eligible to be candi-
dates for any State Association, Branch, or National
office, or delegates to any conventions. They may
attend only that part of the meeting which concerns
them, such as change of dues structure and informa-
tion concerning Health or Life Insurance;
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mnmailman on 5/16/2018(UTC)
Hsukii  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, May 16, 2018 2:15:40 PM(UTC)
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IMO 204b's are worse than scabs. Pick a side and stick with it. If you want to be a boss, be a boss. Don't play both sides of the fence. I could never trust a 204b. Or at least it would take a few years after his/her return to craft and deciding that management wasn't his/her bag of tea to gain back my respect.
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mnmailman on 5/16/2018(UTC), LastLaconiaTE on 5/16/2018(UTC)
postalvet  
#14 Posted : Wednesday, May 16, 2018 2:44:49 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: MPE2009 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: craigrh13 Go to Quoted Post
Then a union member filling in as a 204b should be exempt from paying union dues since they are looked at as being so evil. Then again, the union still wants their money so that will never happen.


Craig it has nothing to do with being looked upon as evil. Don't twist the facts of this discussion to the point that it becomes stupid. A 204b is a member of management for the time they have a 1723 for. Much of what is said at a meeting pertains to union members and is often sensitive in nature. Sometimes people like to vent among their peers. Neither a 204b nor the members should be put in that position of a member of mgt attending a meeting uninvited. It's simply a conflict of interest.


this person is either On the spectrum or has some kind of mental issue that prevents them from thinking clearly.

every post from them is the same.
Postal employee (retired) 38 yrs who helps even if some do not believe me! I was a Steward, officer & trouble maker. Just Sayin'
Hannah Blector  
#15 Posted : Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:16:33 PM(UTC)
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martymcfly, I wanted to post a link to Doc Brown's scream during experiment as my answer to you. You can google it (2 second youtube video grab). I did not like how the link posted when I tried. I am not savvy with posting links. I once emailed someone my entire email file by mistake.
122intheshade  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, May 16, 2018 4:20:02 PM(UTC)
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In my office, in the time I've been there, we've had several 204b's, both career carriers and CCAs. Here's how it turned out.

The CCA, was terrific at the job, totally got the management part without being a rough-riding jerk, managed OT and down routes and relays very well. We LOVED the guy. He quit to repair elevators. Still comes by occasionally to say hi. Too smart for the job.

Another 204b was a supervisor when I got hired as a CCA. Lived a long way from the office. Applied for every opening closer to home in another suburb, and neighboring areas. Never got one. Had medical issues. Eventually left, as he could only case. We had A LOT of people with medical issues for several years. Last year, Phoenix "settled" with them. They're gone.

Two other newly-minted career carriers took a shot at 204b. They were OK at it. When a previous office manager left to manage another office, he wanted one of the 204b's to come with him. But in the end, neither wanted to put up with the BS. You have to sell your soul, and repeat the company line with regard to DOIS, etc, that is just such an insult to everyone's intelligence. They gave it up, and became techs.

My office tends to run a lot of supervisors through, on the way to other offices. So now and then, you see the ex-204b's explaining something to the "new" supervisors. Fill in punch line here.
We decide which is right; and which is an illusion. I've got blisters on me fingers!
Hannah Blector  
#17 Posted : Wednesday, May 16, 2018 4:34:25 PM(UTC)
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We have a carrier who is a young, physically-fit man who made regular quickly. He gets his route down easily and makes it look easy. He is not like ones who run their route and then treats others like they are lazy. He is really nice. Well, less than 2 years in he realized he does not want (or cannot hack) his body breaking down as a city carrier. He is now interviewing for supervisor jobs. He has zero experience at managing and just doesn't want to be a carrier. That is quite common among city carriers who become managers. They know they won't make it (even some who started out badmouthing senior carriers). I think some future supervisors post here as city carriers now. But maybe they have mounted routes and just don't know what it is like to do park and loop for many years.
ccaforever  
#18 Posted : Wednesday, May 16, 2018 6:13:50 PM(UTC)

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In some small offices, there’s just no possibility for a CCA to become regular so they do what they have to to get work in hopes it will lead to some kind of career position. Our 204b (cca) is applying for an open PTF clerk position. If she gets it, she’ll get a higher rate of pay, more hours and benefits. What a union thinks doesn’t matter when you got mouths to feed. Also, even if she gets the clerk job, she knows all the routes and will be crossing crafts (both city and rural) and you won’t hear any complaints from the regular carriers because otherwise they would have to work on their NS day. Welcome to the new postal reality in the small town postal world. You do what you have to in order to survive.
Seadogg  
#19 Posted : Wednesday, May 16, 2018 7:25:52 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: ccaforever Go to Quoted Post
In some small offices, there’s just no possibility for a CCA to become regular so they do what they have to to get work in hopes it will lead to some kind of career position. Our 204b (cca) is applying for an open PTF clerk position. If she gets it, she’ll get a higher rate of pay, more hours and benefits. What a union thinks doesn’t matter when you got mouths to feed. Also, even if she gets the clerk job, she knows all the routes and will be crossing crafts (both city and rural) and you won’t hear any complaints from the regular carriers because otherwise they would have to work on their NS day. Welcome to the new postal reality in the small town postal world. You do what you have to in order to survive.


Yeah it must be difficult to deal with open routes in small stations. Unlike in larger stations, you can't necessarily solve the problem by hiring more staff - then you'll just be overstaffed when everyone shows up.

Regardless of what the unions think, is a CCA even eligible to apply for a PTF position?

Edited by user Wednesday, May 16, 2018 7:26:24 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

craigrh13  
#20 Posted : Thursday, May 17, 2018 8:07:37 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: MPE2009 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: craigrh13 Go to Quoted Post
Then a union member filling in as a 204b should be exempt from paying union dues since they are looked at as being so evil. Then again, the union still wants their money so that will never happen.


Craig it has nothing to do with being looked upon as evil. Don't twist the facts of this discussion to the point that it becomes stupid. A 204b is a member of management for the time they have a 1723 for. Much of what is said at a meeting pertains to union members and is often sensitive in nature. Sometimes people like to vent among their peers. Neither a 204b nor the members should be put in that position of a member of mgt attending a meeting uninvited. It's simply a conflict of interest.


Ah yes. Have to keep the imaginary war and fear going.
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