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usfedemployee  
#1 Posted : Thursday, June 07, 2018 12:14:42 PM(UTC)
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Hello -

I have recently been informed by my immediate supervisor that my performance review period is being extended by 90 days, and I am being placed on a Performance Improvement Plan (PIP) for that duration. I was informed of this on Monday, June 4, and told that there were problems getting the documentation through HR. It is now Thursday afternoon, and the PIP has supposedly been effective for almost a week already. I have not seen a draft of the document, so I do not know what I supposed to be doing under the PIP, what assistance or guidance I will be getting (OPM guidance requires reasonable training and assistance to meet the goal of the PIP), or anything at all, really.

Is it permissible to put someone on a retroactive PIP - could they hand me the document tomorrow (or in a week, or a month) backdated to June 1 and tell me to sign it? Is this legitimate? I've looked at a lot of OPM guidance, and I can't imagine this adheres to the spirit, if not the letter, of the PIP process.

Thanks very much.
GSBS  
#2 Posted : Thursday, June 07, 2018 2:25:50 PM(UTC)
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Just don't sign anything. My agency wanted me to admit on paper to a possible Felony charge, wouldn't do it!
FS0201  
#3 Posted : Thursday, June 07, 2018 2:55:56 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: usfedemployee Go to Quoted Post
Hello -

I have recently been informed by my immediate supervisor that my performance review period is being extended by 90 days, and I am being placed on a Performance Improvement Plan (PIP) for that duration. I was informed of this on Monday, June 4, and told that there were problems getting the documentation through HR. It is now Thursday afternoon, and the PIP has supposedly been effective for almost a week already. I have not seen a draft of the document, so I do not know what I supposed to be doing under the PIP, what assistance or guidance I will be getting (OPM guidance requires reasonable training and assistance to meet the goal of the PIP), or anything at all, really.

Is it permissible to put someone on a retroactive PIP - could they hand me the document tomorrow (or in a week, or a month) backdated to June 1 and tell me to sign it? Is this legitimate? I've looked at a lot of OPM guidance, and I can't imagine this adheres to the spirit, if not the letter, of the PIP process.

Thanks very much.


Don’t worry about it until issued the document. As for signing, it doesn’t really matter whether you sign, or the supervisor annotates that you refused to sign. It is valid either way. Once you get it, read through and determine what you need to do in order to demonstrate acceptable (minimal) performance. You don’t have to be a rockstar, just demonstrate that you are able to perform to the minimal level of performance...and then maintain.

*90 days is a long time, I like doing them for 30.
The excuse of, "I read it on FederalSoup..." won't work. Please do your due diligence.
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usfedemployee on 6/8/2018(UTC)
frankgonzalez  
#4 Posted : Friday, June 08, 2018 3:07:07 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: FS0201 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: usfedemployee Go to Quoted Post
Hello -

I have recently been informed by my immediate supervisor that my performance review period is being extended by 90 days, and I am being placed on a Performance Improvement Plan (PIP) for that duration. I was informed of this on Monday, June 4, and told that there were problems getting the documentation through HR. It is now Thursday afternoon, and the PIP has supposedly been effective for almost a week already. I have not seen a draft of the document, so I do not know what I supposed to be doing under the PIP, what assistance or guidance I will be getting (OPM guidance requires reasonable training and assistance to meet the goal of the PIP), or anything at all, really.

Is it permissible to put someone on a retroactive PIP - could they hand me the document tomorrow (or in a week, or a month) backdated to June 1 and tell me to sign it? Is this legitimate? I've looked at a lot of OPM guidance, and I can't imagine this adheres to the spirit, if not the letter, of the PIP process.

Thanks very much.


Don’t worry about it until issued the document. As for signing, it doesn’t really matter whether you sign, or the supervisor annotates that you refused to sign. It is valid either way. Once you get it, read through and determine what you need to do in order to demonstrate acceptable (minimal) performance. You don’t have to be a rockstar, just demonstrate that you are able to perform to the minimal level of performance...and then maintain.

*90 days is a long time, I like doing them for 30.
Concur...and I only go more than 30 if a specific performance aspect can't be done in 30 days (ie an event has to be planned and the date is 48 days later...then I'd do a 60 day Performance Demonstration Period. Then again, I have Bill Wiley's "The Uncivil Servant" on my bookshelf! PIP is the common used term, but it isn't to show improvement, but that you can do the job).

You should have voted Cthulu...the greatest of all Evils
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usfedemployee on 6/8/2018(UTC)
usfedemployee  
#5 Posted : Friday, June 08, 2018 4:19:50 AM(UTC)
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Don’t worry about it until issued the document. As for signing, it doesn’t really matter whether you sign, or the supervisor annotates that you refused to sign. It is valid either way. Once you get it, read through and determine what you need to do in order to demonstrate acceptable (minimal) performance. You don’t have to be a rockstar, just demonstrate that you are able to perform to the minimal level of performance...and then maintain.

*90 days is a long time, I like doing them for 30.



Thank you for your reply.

To be a little more clear, my question is not about what to do while on a PIP. My question is whether I can be held accountable for performance on a PIP without actually having been shown the plan or told what the acceptable (minimal) performance to successfully complete the plan *is*, and if so, how long (can they hand it to me on day 45? On day 89?). My understanding is that a PIP must have specific, measurable tasks, and that reasonable counseling, support and, if necessary, training must be provided to the employee to help him/her achieve the objectives in the plan. It's unclear to me how an employee can be held accountable without having seen what they are being held accountable to.

FYI, still no PIP today.
frankgonzalez  
#6 Posted : Friday, June 08, 2018 4:42:26 AM(UTC)
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Day 1 is the day you receive it. So, no...they cannot put you on day 1+Y of the PIP when you finally get it. That is day 1 and then you count the days. Remember, a PIP is counted in Calendar days not work/duty days.
You should have voted Cthulu...the greatest of all Evils
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usfedemployee on 6/8/2018(UTC)
nightchop  
#7 Posted : Friday, June 08, 2018 10:26:42 AM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: frankgonzalez Go to Quoted Post
Day 1 is the day you receive it.



So basically the OP is not on a PIP and his supervisor is being foolish and possibly acting improperly.
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usfedemployee on 6/8/2018(UTC)
DroneBee  
#8 Posted : Sunday, June 10, 2018 2:31:17 AM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: usfedemployee Go to Quoted Post
I have recently been informed by my immediate supervisor that my performance review period is being extended by 90 days, and I am being placed on a Performance Improvement Plan (PIP) for that duration.



You are going to be removed. Maybe not from this PIP, but from the next PIP.


Originally Posted by: usfedemployee Go to Quoted Post
Is it permissible to put someone on a retroactive PIP - could they hand me the document tomorrow (or in a week, or a month) backdated to June 1 and tell me to sign it? Is this legitimate? I've looked at a lot of OPM guidance, and I can't imagine this adheres to the spirit, if not the letter, of the PIP process.


"They" can ask you to do whatever "they" want - it's up to you what you do. My advice: don't sign anything retroactively. That said, the hand-writing is on the wall - you will be removed.

God Speed.




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usfedemployee on 6/11/2018(UTC)
birdonamission  
#9 Posted : Monday, June 11, 2018 7:12:17 AM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: DroneBee Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: usfedemployee Go to Quoted Post
I have recently been informed by my immediate supervisor that my performance review period is being extended by 90 days, and I am being placed on a Performance Improvement Plan (PIP) for that duration.



You are going to be removed. Maybe not from this PIP, but from the next PIP.


Originally Posted by: usfedemployee Go to Quoted Post
Is it permissible to put someone on a retroactive PIP - could they hand me the document tomorrow (or in a week, or a month) backdated to June 1 and tell me to sign it? Is this legitimate? I've looked at a lot of OPM guidance, and I can't imagine this adheres to the spirit, if not the letter, of the PIP process.


"They" can ask you to do whatever "they" want - it's up to you what you do. My advice: don't sign anything retroactively. That said, the hand-writing is on the wall - you will be removed.

God Speed.






"You will be removed." How do you know this? Just because that's what happened to you or someone else, it certainly does NOT mean that that's what will happen to this person or that that's what always happens to individuals placed on a PIP.

You may have reasons to be cynical based on your own specific experience, but there's no need to discourage this person, who sounds like they are genuinely just trying to understand the process, and then follow what is being asked of him or her to do once they finally get the PIP.

cboro_guy  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, June 12, 2018 2:28:46 PM(UTC)

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As others have said, the PIP begins when you receive the document explaining how it will be measured. The supervisor has done nothing improper so far. She/he just told you your performance period will be extended b/c you're unacceptable in a critical element. When you're presented with the PIP, sign it and date it for that day. People telling you not to sign it are being ridiculous: it doesn't matter and makes you look obstructionist. You want to show the agency that you will cooperate and will work hard. Don't get removed over "principle."

NB: One of Trump's recent EOs instructs agencies to limit PIPs to 30 days unless necessary (or unless a current CBA requires otherwise). One reason for the delay could be the agency figuring out how this EO applies to you.

Many people are successful during a PIP. Do your best, work your butt off, cooperate, and follow the PIP's instructions to the T. The agency need only prove you failed to complete a PIP by substantial evidence, which is a low standard.

Good luck!
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DroneBee on 6/15/2018(UTC)
DroneBee  
#11 Posted : Friday, June 15, 2018 11:07:07 AM(UTC)

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I had no idea about the Executive Order - Executive Order Promoting Accountability and Streamlining Removal Procedures Consistent with Merit System Principles under Budget & Spending, May 25, 2018. That follows the "success" the VA has had clearing house: https://www.va.gov/accountability/

https://www.whitehouse.g...merit-system-principles/

Wow! 30 days to removal!

Good luck everyone! God Speed!
seabeedeb  
#12 Posted : Friday, June 15, 2018 9:23:07 PM(UTC)

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As a union steward, I have always advised people that if you are put on a PIP, you are one step away from removal, so you need to take it very seriously.
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DroneBee on 6/16/2018(UTC)
FrankJr  
#13 Posted : Saturday, June 16, 2018 8:00:58 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: seabeedeb Go to Quoted Post
As a union steward, I have always advised people that if you are put on a PIP, you are one step away from removal, so you need to take it very seriously.


...as opposed to?
birdonamission  
#14 Posted : Saturday, June 16, 2018 8:22:01 PM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: FrankJr Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: seabeedeb Go to Quoted Post
As a union steward, I have always advised people that if you are put on a PIP, you are one step away from removal, so you need to take it very seriously.


...as opposed to?


Not taking it seriously? lol
seabeedeb  
#15 Posted : Saturday, June 16, 2018 9:36:05 PM(UTC)

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Some folks don't realize they could lose their job if they fail the PIP. You'd be amazed what people think sometimes. I had a case where the person thought she could resign from her department without resigning from the agency. I had to scramble to get the agency to change her resignation to retirement. And some people are delusional and think they would never get fired.

Edited by user Saturday, June 16, 2018 9:38:05 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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FrankJr  
#16 Posted : Sunday, June 17, 2018 2:56:47 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: birdonamission Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FrankJr Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: seabeedeb Go to Quoted Post
As a union steward, I have always advised people that if you are put on a PIP, you are one step away from removal, so you need to take it very seriously.


...as opposed to?


Not taking it seriously? lol


No offense, but the union steward at the current location is equally unhelpful.
Hawaiiannative  
#17 Posted : Sunday, June 17, 2018 7:43:55 PM(UTC)
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As always, there are rules for some people, and others, are never held to the same standards. It is interesting how a PIP can be written, for one person, when another employee gets away with egregious errors and behaviors.

I agree, once you get a PIP, you are nailed. Follow it to the letter, and ask for assistance and review. Suck it up with a spoon. Whether it is backdated or not, the handwriting is on the wall, one way or another. So, be proactive, and work hard at being humble, officious, and ingratiating. Your supervisor wants a win, so do it.
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DroneBee on 6/22/2018(UTC)
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