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FBI

The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) is an agency of the United States Department of Justice that serves as both a federal criminal investigative body and an internal intelligence agency. The FBI has investigative jurisdiction over violations of more than 200 categories of federal crime.

Headquartered in Washington, DC, the FBI has over 55 field offices located throughout the USA as well as smaller units throughout the world.

Perhaps you are working for the FBI or interested in working for the FBI. Here is a forum to share your experience with the FBI.

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GeorgeofTheJungle  
#741 Posted : Friday, December 6, 2019 9:37:24 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: vmars Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: GeorgeofTheJungle Go to Quoted Post
Hey folks. Figured I’d share the good news. Received an email yesterday that I was cleared for hire! Willing to answer any questions you folks may have.


:D Congrats, George! I was beginning to wonder if any of us were getting through this year, haha. Let us know what Quantico class you end up taking.


Thanks friend! Will do.
App 8/30/18
P1 12/18
P2 12/18
P2 1/29/19 Pass
P3 4/8/19
P3 4/15/19 Pass
CJO 4/20
PSI 6/9/19
Poly 6/13
Poly Pass 6/17
FO 12/12
Varianz  
#742 Posted : Monday, December 9, 2019 10:18:46 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: GeorgeofTheJungle Go to Quoted Post
Hey folks. Figured I’d share the good news. Received an email yesterday that I was cleared for hire! Willing to answer any questions you folks may have.


Congrats! 6 months for background that's honestly pretty fast from what I've heard.
jreff22  
#743 Posted : Monday, December 9, 2019 4:07:29 PM(UTC)
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What’s the rough list of academy classes for 2020?
App 8/31/18
P1 12/5/18
P2 12/12/18
P2 1/27/19 Pass
P3 9/18/19
P3 9/24/19 Pass
CJO 10/4/19
PSI 10/24/19
Poly 10/28/19
BFTC 3/1/20
GeorgeofTheJungle  
#744 Posted : Monday, December 9, 2019 4:31:00 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Varianz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: GeorgeofTheJungle Go to Quoted Post
Hey folks. Figured I’d share the good news. Received an email yesterday that I was cleared for hire! Willing to answer any questions you folks may have.


Congrats! 6 months for background that's honestly pretty fast from what I've heard.


Thank you!

Yeah man to be honest I’m surprised as well. I expected it to take a year.
App 8/30/18
P1 12/18
P2 12/18
P2 1/29/19 Pass
P3 4/8/19
P3 4/15/19 Pass
CJO 4/20
PSI 6/9/19
Poly 6/13
Poly Pass 6/17
FO 12/12
Varianz  
#745 Posted : Tuesday, December 10, 2019 8:02:35 AM(UTC)
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Well, had my poly and it went as poorly as it could. He didn't outright say I failed but strongly strongly strongly implied it. So, cool. That's just awesome.
George Maschke  
#746 Posted : Tuesday, December 10, 2019 8:17:52 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Varianz Go to Quoted Post
Well, had my poly and it went as poorly as it could. He didn't outright say I failed but strongly strongly strongly implied it. So, cool. That's just awesome.


If you indeed failed, you would have been subjected to a post-test interrogation during which the polygraph operator would have directly accused you of lying and/or withholding information, and sought to obtain an admission from you.
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Varianz  
#747 Posted : Tuesday, December 10, 2019 8:20:03 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: George Maschke Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Varianz Go to Quoted Post
Well, had my poly and it went as poorly as it could. He didn't outright say I failed but strongly strongly strongly implied it. So, cool. That's just awesome.


If you indeed failed, you would have been subjected to a post-test interrogation during which the polygraph operator would have directly accused you of lying and/or withholding information, and sought to obtain an admission from you.


Yeah no he did that lol. Repeatedly asked me to confess.
Varianz  
#748 Posted : Tuesday, December 10, 2019 8:26:46 AM(UTC)
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It's just incredibly frustrating. One of the things I was accused of lying about is drug use, which anyone who knows me would say is laughable. Never done drugs. Never sold them. Nothing.

The guy spends half an hour impugning my character before the test, calling me a liar and a cheater, then wonders why I'm sweating and nervous when he straps me to a chair and constricts my breathing. Jfc. This is some real bull*****.
George Maschke  
#749 Posted : Tuesday, December 10, 2019 8:33:47 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Varianz Go to Quoted Post
It's just incredibly frustrating. One of the things I was accused of lying about is drug use, which anyone who knows me would say is laughable. Never done drugs. Never sold them. Nothing.

The guy spends half an hour impugning my character before the test, calling me a liar and a cheater, then wonders why I'm sweating and nervous when he straps me to a chair and constricts my breathing. Jfc. This is some real bull*****.


It is inappropriate for a polygrapher to call a subject a liar and a cheater before the "test." Could you provide examples of the kinds of pre-test accusations he made?
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Varianz  
#750 Posted : Tuesday, December 10, 2019 9:17:25 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: George Maschke Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Varianz Go to Quoted Post
It's just incredibly frustrating. One of the things I was accused of lying about is drug use, which anyone who knows me would say is laughable. Never done drugs. Never sold them. Nothing.

The guy spends half an hour impugning my character before the test, calling me a liar and a cheater, then wonders why I'm sweating and nervous when he straps me to a chair and constricts my breathing. Jfc. This is some real bull*****.


It is inappropriate for a polygrapher to call a subject a liar and a cheater before the "test." Could you provide examples of the kinds of pre-test accusations he made?


I think that falls into the category of stuff I signed papers saying I wouldn't talk about. Erring on the side of caution.

So does anyone have any idea how screwed I am? Any chance at all, or should I just move on with my life? Is there an appeals process?
George Maschke  
#751 Posted : Tuesday, December 10, 2019 9:37:13 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Varianz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: George Maschke Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Varianz Go to Quoted Post
It's just incredibly frustrating. One of the things I was accused of lying about is drug use, which anyone who knows me would say is laughable. Never done drugs. Never sold them. Nothing.

The guy spends half an hour impugning my character before the test, calling me a liar and a cheater, then wonders why I'm sweating and nervous when he straps me to a chair and constricts my breathing. Jfc. This is some real bull*****.


It is inappropriate for a polygrapher to call a subject a liar and a cheater before the "test." Could you provide examples of the kinds of pre-test accusations he made?


I think that falls into the category of stuff I signed papers saying I wouldn't talk about. Erring on the side of caution.

So does anyone have any idea how screwed I am? Any chance at all, or should I just move on with my life? Is there an appeals process?


Okay, so if the polygrapher was grilling you about honesty with respect to the so-called "control" or comparison questions, for example, "Did you ever lie to get out of trouble?" or "Did you ever lie to someone in a position of authority?" then he may have actually been trying to help you, because grilling you about such questions would tend to sensitize you to them, making your passing the polygraph more likely.

On the other hand, if he was grilling you about the relevant questions, such as "Are you withholding information about committing a serious crime?" or "Are you intentionally withholding any information about your involvement with illegal drugs?" that would have the effect of sabotaging your chances, again by sensitizing you to these relevant questions and making the chances of your failing more likely.
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George Maschke  
#752 Posted : Tuesday, December 10, 2019 9:44:08 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Varianz Go to Quoted Post
So does anyone have any idea how screwed I am? Any chance at all, or should I just move on with my life? Is there an appeals process?


There is no appeal process for those who wrongly fail federal pre-employment polygraph "tests." A failed FBI polygraph will adversely affect your chances for employment with any agency that requires a security clearance, even if a polygraph is not required. If you made no post-test admission and signed no post-test statement, then you are in a better position than if you did do such things.

You can (and should) write a letter contesting your polygraph operator's false accusation that you lied. It will be added to your FBI file and will document the fact that you didn't tacitly concur with the accusation. For more on what little that can be done following a false positive outcome, see Chapter 5 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector.
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Varianz  
#753 Posted : Tuesday, December 10, 2019 6:41:16 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Poplou Go to Quoted Post

This isn't a game. Let me say that again. This is not a game. People here freaked out on me when I suggested that a poster would be put on a watch list for complaining that he wasn't getting offered enough money for IA. That wasn't a joke on my part.


Nah that was still one of the dumbest things I've ever heard and you're an idiot. To add some context, I've told a few people in the intelligence community about that particular comment because it was so hilarious, and they all said it was idiotic bull***** coming from someone who doesn't know what they're talking about and wants to sound like a hardass.

Anyways, as for the rest of your incoherent, self righteous (and wrong) ramblings, this is my response: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQCU36pkH7c

Edited by user Tuesday, December 10, 2019 6:46:41 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

George Maschke  
#754 Posted : Tuesday, December 10, 2019 10:21:16 PM(UTC)
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Poplou,

You wrote to Varianz, among other things:

Originally Posted by: Poplou Go to Quoted Post
Believe it or not, the polygraph specialist actually did you a favor. He saw something in you that maybe you don't even see yourself. Maybe a personality trait, an attitude, or some other risk factor that later on could be exploited in order to get you to betray the secrets that would be entrusted to you. Even if you truly believe this is not true, it still is likely there. Believe me, no one standing before a federal judge on espionage charges ever thought that's where they would be standing at the time they were hired. I also salute and appreciate the work of this polygraph specialist. He doesn't have an easy job. He is one of many gatekeepers to the security of our nation, and it isn't easy having to close the gate on people. Nevertheless, these people stop many would-be Edward Snowdens from ending up in our ranks, and anyone who loves our country and understands how important that role is for national security should be thankful we have people willing and able to perform polygraph work.


The polygraph measures breathing, palmar sweating, and readings from a blood pressure cuff. None of these measures are systematically correlated with lying. Polygraphy is a thoroughly discredited pseudoscience. Some twenty years ago, the FBI's own senior scientific expert on polygraphy testified to Congress that "It is completely without any theoretical foundation and has absolutely no validity."

The National Academy of Sciences conducted a thorough review of the scientific evidence on polygraphs and concluded that "its accuracy in distinguishing actual or potential security violators from innocent test takers is insufficient to justify reliance on its use in employee security screening in federal agencies."

Varianz states that he has "Never done drugs. Never sold them. Nothing." Nonetheless, his polygraph operator accused him of lying about drug use.

On the basis of what evidence do you conclude that Varianz's polygraph operator "saw something" in him that maybe he didn't even see himself?
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George Maschke  
#755 Posted : Tuesday, December 10, 2019 11:29:55 PM(UTC)
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Poplou,

Applying Occam's razor, I think the more likely explanation of why Varianz failed the polygraph is simply that an invalid "test" produced an inaccurate outcome.
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GeorgeofTheJungle  
#756 Posted : Wednesday, December 11, 2019 10:39:13 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Poplou Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Varianz Go to Quoted Post
It's just incredibly frustrating. One of the things I was accused of lying about is drug use, which anyone who knows me would say is laughable. Never done drugs. Never sold them. Nothing.

The guy spends half an hour impugning my character before the test, calling me a liar and a cheater, then wonders why I'm sweating and nervous when he straps me to a chair and constricts my breathing. Jfc. This is some real bull*****.


A lot of you kids here just don't get it, do you?

I've seen so many face palm moments here, and this is just another one of them. Everything ranging from "Why am I not starting at GS-13 out the door for IA?" to "I don't really even know what this job is, but it sounds cool".

This isn't a game. Let me say that again. This is not a game. People here freaked out on me when I suggested that a poster would be put on a watch list for complaining that he wasn't getting offered enough money for IA. That wasn't a joke on my part. Just like we have "terrorist watch lists", there are also watch lists for intelligence community members themselves. There are internal watch lists, and I promise you, someone who complains about not getting paid enough is basically automatically on a list. You are being entrusted with top secret national security information when you work in the intelligence community. You know what the number one biggest motivation is for people who leak our national security secrets to foreign governments is? MONEY. China, Russia, et al are MORE than happy to cut a check to some punk 20 or 30 something year old entitled young person who is new to this line of work, doesn't quite get what it's really about, and thinks he should be getting paid X insane amount of money and is dissatisfied he isn't getting it. There are multiple intelligence community members charged with espionage every year after accepting money from a foreign power. This is public information. Google it. People who join the intelligence community thinking they are going to make a lot of money are one of the biggest internal risks for national security information leaks.

As far as your polygraph experience - let me make this abundantly clear for those of you who don't currently (and never have) actually worked in the intelligence community. Whatever intelligence agency you end up with (IF you end up with one) doesn't give a damn about your feelings. They don't give a damn about your personal ambitions. Your job is to serve the national security interests of the United States. If you are a threat to that, or even a PRESUMED threat to that, then you are an unacceptable risk that has to go. Part of the security vetting process for national security positions is to establish your loyalty to our country. That involves removing your privacy and getting into your deepest thoughts and feelings.

A polygraph is one of MANY tools that are used to root out traitors or would-be traitors. And no, it doesn't stop after you "make it through" the hiring process. It gets even more intense. You are constantly going to be under scrutiny for your loyalty. You will be required to make ALL of your financial records available periodically during your time working in the intelligence community. Your privacy WILL be invaded. There are entire internal departments at EVERY intelligence agency in the country that have the sole mission of finding INTERNAL risks. That means their entire purpose is to investigate YOU and the people working next to you. Constantly. Quietly.

Who are you dating? Who are your friends that you hang out with on the weekend? What did you email your mom about yesterday? What is your behavior like outside of work? All of this is subject to monitoring. Unlike what many people here seem to think, this doesn't just stop after you get hired. It continues perpetually.

Working in intelligence is a sacrifice like the military almost. You have to give up privacy. You have to give up stability and move across the country if you are told. You may have to be put in a position where your personal safety could be at risk. If this is not acceptable to you - if giving up your privacy and having to swear loyalty to this country and at times have that loyalty questioned - is too much of a sacrifice or shock to you (as it apparently was to this poster) - then this is quite frankly NOT the right line of work for you. Your loyalty and integrity are paramount. One slip up. Even once. Even for one moment, will result in immediate consequences for you that will destroy the rest of your life and result in the loss of your freedom. Again, this is not a game.

Don't like what I am telling you? Well, guess what? Every. Single. Person. In your chain of command at whatever intelligence agency you work at thinks this exact same way.... and I am considered a bit of a free-spirit compared to a lot of them. That's just the reality and culture of our line of work.

Believe it or not, the polygraph specialist actually did you a favor. He saw something in you that maybe you don't even see yourself. Maybe a personality trait, an attitude, or some other risk factor that later on could be exploited in order to get you to betray the secrets that would be entrusted to you. Even if you truly believe this is not true, it still is likely there. Believe me, no one standing before a federal judge on espionage charges ever thought that's where they would be standing at the time they were hired. I also salute and appreciate the work of this polygraph specialist. He doesn't have an easy job. He is one of many gatekeepers to the security of our nation, and it isn't easy having to close the gate on people. Nevertheless, these people stop many would-be Edward Snowdens from ending up in our ranks, and anyone who loves our country and understands how important that role is for national security should be thankful we have people willing and able to perform polygraph work.


Aww man I was hoping you'd be back.

"This isn't a game. Let me say that again. This is not a game."

You had me chuckling so hard I almost chocked on my orange juice.

Edited by user Wednesday, December 11, 2019 10:44:14 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

App 8/30/18
P1 12/18
P2 12/18
P2 1/29/19 Pass
P3 4/8/19
P3 4/15/19 Pass
CJO 4/20
PSI 6/9/19
Poly 6/13
Poly Pass 6/17
FO 12/12
Hampton121  
#757 Posted : Wednesday, December 11, 2019 10:58:58 AM(UTC)
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Does anybody know when the next IA posting will be available? This will be my 2nd time trying failed phase 2 about 2 years ago. I feel like my writing has gotten better since i've been an Asylum officer.
vmars  
#758 Posted : Wednesday, December 11, 2019 11:22:38 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Varianz Go to Quoted Post
It's just incredibly frustrating. One of the things I was accused of lying about is drug use, which anyone who knows me would say is laughable. Never done drugs. Never sold them. Nothing.

The guy spends half an hour impugning my character before the test, calling me a liar and a cheater, then wonders why I'm sweating and nervous when he straps me to a chair and constricts my breathing. Jfc. This is some real bull*****.


:( I'm so sorry, Varianz. That sucks. Hang in there.

App: 10/5/18
PI: 12/11/18
PII: 12/20/18 (01/16/19)
PIII: 6/12/19 (6/18/19)
CJO: 7/5/19
Poly: 8/21/19 (9/10/19)
Bkgd: 9/2019-??
Varianz  
#759 Posted : Thursday, December 12, 2019 6:10:18 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: vmars Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Varianz Go to Quoted Post
It's just incredibly frustrating. One of the things I was accused of lying about is drug use, which anyone who knows me would say is laughable. Never done drugs. Never sold them. Nothing.

The guy spends half an hour impugning my character before the test, calling me a liar and a cheater, then wonders why I'm sweating and nervous when he straps me to a chair and constricts my breathing. Jfc. This is some real bull*****.


:( I'm so sorry, Varianz. That sucks. Hang in there.



Thanks man, appreciate it. It just sucks that this is what did me in. I'd totally understand if I was deemed not competitive, or didn't pass P1 or P2. That's on me, I need to improve. But failing the polygraph because I was mistakenly accused of lying because of some squigly lines on a pseudoscience voodo machine...yeah that hurts.

Idk. My backup was law school, I have some great options there so that's where I think I'll head. Maybe in three or four years they'll change the policy, or at least allow appeals. I'll probably lurk here because I'm still invested in ya'lls outcomes.
GeorgeofTheJungle  
#760 Posted : Thursday, December 12, 2019 6:47:25 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Varianz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: vmars Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Varianz Go to Quoted Post
It's just incredibly frustrating. One of the things I was accused of lying about is drug use, which anyone who knows me would say is laughable. Never done drugs. Never sold them. Nothing.

The guy spends half an hour impugning my character before the test, calling me a liar and a cheater, then wonders why I'm sweating and nervous when he straps me to a chair and constricts my breathing. Jfc. This is some real bull*****.


:( I'm so sorry, Varianz. That sucks. Hang in there.



Thanks man, appreciate it. It just sucks that this is what did me in. I'd totally understand if I was deemed not competitive, or didn't pass P1 or P2. That's on me, I need to improve. But failing the polygraph because I was mistakenly accused of lying because of some squigly lines on a pseudoscience voodo machine...yeah that hurts.

Idk. My backup was law school, I have some great options there so that's where I think I'll head. Maybe in three or four years they'll change the policy, or at least allow appeals. I'll probably lurk here because I'm still invested in ya'lls outcomes.


Hey Varianz. Sorry to hear about your outcome as well. If you go to law school maybe consider being a prosecutor. I know a few ADAs in my city and they seem to enjoy it. Theres city/state and federal positions for those roles. They get paid well and get to work large and interesting cases.
App 8/30/18
P1 12/18
P2 12/18
P2 1/29/19 Pass
P3 4/8/19
P3 4/15/19 Pass
CJO 4/20
PSI 6/9/19
Poly 6/13
Poly Pass 6/17
FO 12/12
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