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nightchop  
#21 Posted : Monday, October 08, 2018 5:51:15 AM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: DroneBee Go to Quoted Post
I never stated that retaliation was the "primary motivation." I was stating a fact.


It doesn't matter. You file because you believe you have been aggrieved and are seeking to remedy a problem. Your boss should only be a concern insofar as they were responsible for whatever happened to you. You have a victim mentality and THAT is what will ultimately keep you from moving in a positive direction. Not the fact that you filed a complaint. You managed to get another job (something many filers weren't able to do) and you're behaving the way you did when you were knees-deep in everything. Just because you couldn't handle the pressure doesn't mean others won't be able to. Your way of coping is unhealthy and you should probably talk to someone before this becomes a permanent impediment to your life. At some point you will have to take responsibility for the way you're handing things. You give the complaint too much power in your life.

Edited by user Monday, October 08, 2018 5:58:15 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Hawaiiannative  
#22 Posted : Monday, October 08, 2018 8:49:20 AM(UTC)
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Nightchop,

You get a "victim mentality" after everything has been taken away from you, and left you powerless. You can't just, "forget about it, and move forward.". And the most frustrating issue, is that the perpetrators, who broke laws, regulations, and lied, are still in power. No one cares. That is the message.

Sure, move forward, "be happy". Those are trite little sound bites, and look great on coffee cups. Live with retailiation for decades, and even after you leave the mess, it is still with you. It is like surviving a plane crash, you are happy you lived through it, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen, or affect you.
thanks 2 users thanked Hawaiiannative for this useful post.
DroneBee on 10/14/2018(UTC), Harrigan on 10/16/2018(UTC)
nightchop  
#23 Posted : Monday, October 08, 2018 9:19:32 AM(UTC)

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They're still in power...for now. I've known plenty of people who eventually fell on their sword. Not to mention that axe is always over your head. Karma comes in many forms. Ask Brett Kavanaugh. Did it ultimately harm him? Not in the sense that it kept him from getting the job. But who wants to be embarrassed on such a large scale? Your credibility is forever tainted. Better to not put yourself in that situation in the first place.

My point is, it's not helpful to you to stay in a place of fear. You're handing them your power and letting them win.
swimmingly  
#24 Posted : Wednesday, October 10, 2018 5:19:25 AM(UTC)

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This was a few topics down however it's true at other agency's.
https://www.fedsmith.com...ikely-disciplined-peers/
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DroneBee on 10/14/2018(UTC)
nightchop  
#25 Posted : Wednesday, October 10, 2018 6:39:42 AM(UTC)

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The VA has always had problems with management. They're like the post office in that way. For all the drama the post office and VA have, at least they have decent unions. Even if the locals aren't that great, the national offices might be able to provide better assistance. Try working for an agency with a weak union that operates as though it's a private sector employer but whose managers have federal government protections (thus won't be fired for incompetence like they would in the private sector). The VA may be bad, but there are agencies that are a lot worse whose bad behavior goes undetected because their PR machine is better. At least you know what you're getting when you go to work for the VA.

Edited by user Wednesday, October 10, 2018 6:42:01 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

DroneBee  
#26 Posted : Sunday, October 14, 2018 1:55:43 AM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: nightchop Go to Quoted Post


It doesn't matter. You file because you believe you have been aggrieved and are seeking to remedy a problem. Your boss should only be a concern insofar as they were responsible for whatever happened to you. You have a victim mentality and THAT is what will ultimately keep you from moving in a positive direction. Not the fact that you filed a complaint. You managed to get another job (something many filers weren't able to do) and you're behaving the way you did when you were knees-deep in everything. Just because you couldn't handle the pressure doesn't mean others won't be able to. Your way of coping is unhealthy and you should probably talk to someone before this becomes a permanent impediment to your life. At some point you will have to take responsibility for the way you're handing things. You give the complaint too much power in your life.


Nightchop - I really don't know your beef with me. I am trying to help others to not go through the pain and suffering that I did. Putting in a complaint is not worth the pain and suffering. The EEOC will not help the complainant, the IG will not help the complainant, the OSC will not help the complainant, the MSPB will not help the complainant, the congressional inquiry will not help the complainant - I've been through them all due to my whistleblowing. I don't want "karma" to hurt anyone; I wanted a job to pay my bills. In the end, my oppressors were promoted or reassigned (did not lose their jobs), and I did. I lost not only my job (based on shady judges and doctored documents by the agency), but I also had astronomical attorney bills. My whistleblowing hurt everyone in my life. I stood up for what is right, for my government, for others like me, because I was duped into believing that the systems were fair - the systems will actually attack the victim.

God Speed and God Bless you.
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Hawaiiannative on 10/19/2018(UTC)
nightchop  
#27 Posted : Sunday, October 14, 2018 10:37:15 AM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: DroneBee Go to Quoted Post
Nightchop - I really don't know your beef with me.



I wouldn't call it "beef". I find you profoundly negative, and it's baffling to me since you managed to get another job. I also think it's not right that you didn't pay it forward by telling others how you managed to secure federal employment after being terminated. That's more helpful than using every opportunity to scare people away from filing. You don't know anyone's particular situation, and sometimes filing is the better of two very bad choices. Instead of helping people make the best of an unfortunate situation, your advice has the potential to cause more anxiety. A person going through this needs support - not someone transferring their fears onto them. There are plenty of people here who are 100% realistic and run down all the negative consequences of filing. These people basically say what you are saying, but they leave the choice whether to file up to the individual, as they should because it is a very personal choice. You mean well, but what you're doing is trying to take away people's agency by making that choice for them. They don't need that when they're already in a situation where they feel powerless. As I said, I knew all the consequences of filing and I filed anyway. I have no regrets about it and would do it again. Had I done what you are suggesting, an already miserable situation would have been completely unbearable and I would have crumbled. That would have adversely affected the way I approached the situation and interfered with my ability to think critically, stay ahead of management (because I was able to predict a lot of their moves) and protect myself in the process. I am not trying to be mean-spirited, but you will have a very difficult time moving on from what happened to you if you don't change your perspective. You are not a victim and you are not powerless. Yes, despite having your life interrupted in a major way. You're still here, and you still have the power to move on to better things. Your attitude is what will prevent you from doing so.
DroneBee  
#28 Posted : Sunday, October 14, 2018 1:39:09 PM(UTC)

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Nightchop - I don't know where you received your inaccurate information - especially about me! I don't know you, other than I have helped you via this site numerous times.

In any case, the accurate information is that a whistleblower will most likely be fired, and there is only a 2% chance of "winning" at the MSPB: http://www.fedbar.org/Re...er-Appeals.aspx?FT=.pdf.

I had no idea prior to trying to help my country that I would be run through the mud. I am trying to help others. There is no way on God's green earth wherein I would ever give the advice for someone to put in a complaint and to lose his/her job, credibility, etc.

So, God Bless and God Speed, Nightchop. I wish you the best.
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Harrigan on 10/16/2018(UTC)
nightchop  
#29 Posted : Sunday, October 14, 2018 1:48:50 PM(UTC)

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I don't know you. That is correct. But you posted on the forum about your new job AND you PMed me to ask me to remove a post where I quoted and responded to you. I honored your request because I understand the need for some anonymity on the internet. Don't try to make it seem like I'm making things up now because you had doubts and now wish to keep a lower profile. Perhaps it's best You don't post at all if you're to the point where you're denying your own words (that you voluntarily shared) due to fear.

I sincerely hope you are able to find closure and healing. Living in fear is not living at all.
DroneBee  
#30 Posted : Monday, October 15, 2018 3:55:39 PM(UTC)

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Nightchop clearly has some issues.

For everyone else - take my advice and don't even think about doing the right thing (e.g., whistleblowing) unless you can afford to lose your job, money, and reputation.

God Bless and God Speed All!
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Harrigan on 10/16/2018(UTC)
nightchop  
#31 Posted : Monday, October 15, 2018 7:12:24 PM(UTC)

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Your posts speak for themselves. Trying to deflect attention away from yourself by attacking me says more about your character than mine.

I suspect you will come back to get the final word. I just wanted to clear up the half-truths you're trying to spin here. I don't like being drawn into other people's games.
swimmingly  
#32 Posted : Monday, October 15, 2018 7:48:23 PM(UTC)

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The above is not an insult to either/any of the parties... It is just proof that doing the right thing is not always the best thing, when one works at the federal government. It was broke before you were employed, and it'll be broke when you retire. If your lucky to retire. From what I've gone through, I'd mine my own business and. shut the f*(K up. cheers ;)
FedCivServ  
#33 Posted : Wednesday, October 17, 2018 12:48:08 PM(UTC)

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I find this incredibly disturbing. If there are this many disgruntled people in the government (whether deserved, not, or in between) no wonder the public thinks we are all losers. i have had a wonderful career, incredible opportunities (but been sexually harassed, etc too.. so it hasn't all been a bed of roses...) but i choose to look on the bright side. However, because i am seeing an increase in the negativity I've decided to punch and retire even though i just became age eligible. I am really tired. i fear for the future though but i just can't do it anymore... i am going to go sit on the beach with a corona and a good book and enjoy all the $ i didn't spend on fancy cars or expensive clothes. I hope everything will be ok, that there are enough people left w/ hope and commitment but it isn't my problem anymore... makes me sad...
nightchop  
#34 Posted : Wednesday, October 17, 2018 4:37:32 PM(UTC)

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Congratulations on nearing retirement FedCivServ! I know a lot of people who are checking out the first chance they get, and I don't blame them. Yeah, sometimes hard times are just temporary and you can wait it out, but I'm fairly confident things are only going to get worse from here. The entire country is on a decline and I don't see it bouncing back anytime soon. We aren't even close to seeing the worst of it. Get out and enjoy life while you can. I got into the government to protect myself against all the downsides of the private sector, and I ended up experiencing everything I feared about the private sector. The lesson there is: nothing is guaranteed. I called myself making a "better" move and it has been my most costly mistake to date. I am not a person who has regrets, but I absolutely regret making contact with my employer. But that's what I get for not living up to my true potential. I hope every government employee does what's best for them and their family. Don't sit around waiting for things to turn around or thinking you're going to maximize your retirement benefits. Learn to live below your means and get out while you still have your good looks and good health. :)
Hawaiiannative  
#35 Posted : Wednesday, October 17, 2018 5:47:16 PM(UTC)
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Every government agency is different. I believe some agencies are great places to work, with people who have integrity and are true public servants. There are other government agencies, that the public would be best served, if the services were privatized. The leadership is full of liars, and retaliation is rampant.
FedCivServ  
#36 Posted : Thursday, October 18, 2018 10:14:17 AM(UTC)

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i have to believe that from everything i see on here. So i am counting my blessings every which way but loose that in 34 years I've only had one job i really didn't like and a handful of leaders that sucked. It's been a real privilege to serve but yeah, i'm ready to start enjoying life and leave the stress to someone else. We have some chronic bogus grievance filers, congressional and IG complainers and since i'm at the top of the food chain in my org i get to deal w/ all that crap. That's really what i'm fed up with. i just want to throw them all on a cargo plane (no A/C and web seats!!) and take them down to Mexico Beach, FL and give them a tour of somewhere people have REAL life threatening problems... no water, no electricity, food shortages... really sad.
FedUpFed25x  
#37 Posted : Thursday, October 18, 2018 3:53:35 PM(UTC)
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I'm with you, FedCiv! In fact, I'm ahead of you as I've been retired for one year now. Like you, the majority of my career was wonderful and one I can look back on with pride. Unfortunately, it was my last job that did me in. I worked for one of the most corrupt organizations I've ever encountered in my life (including private sector) which was populated with psychopaths and sycophants.

My immediate supervisor firmly believed that women had no business being in the workforce and certainly not in any positions of authority - which he stated in both e-mails and in meetings. I later learned he has a history of problems with women in previous government agencies he worked for; he bounced around a lot before he landed in the fertile ground of that organization.

He made it clear in word and deed that men are superior and women should be subordinate. He produced "future organization charts" with 2 men's names in new, upgraded positions despite the fact there were 5 women who were also eligible, had more seniority, and more experience. The jobs hadn't even been advertised at this point and the position descriptions were still in the works. But he had the men's names clearly listed as taking the positions once they were open.

He also believed that minorities were obligated to do any "grunt" work required, to include office cleaning. This, too, he put in writing. He implemented prayer (based on his religion) prior to meetings, despite the fact the office had many people of different religions and some who were atheist. His deeply held beliefs were supported by others higher up in the chain of command. One of his pals used to scream at me in meetings, pointing his finger in my face with spittle actually flying out of his mouth - his visceral hatred of me for just being in the meeting. The same guy would follow behind me in the hallway, spewing insults when no one was around. He then upped the ante and got physical and shoulder-butted me. When I filed an IG complaint they refused to look into it and (laughingly) told me to "Have a nice day!"

I considered myself a true public servant who took my oath seriously. I had no alternative but to object to these actions and report these people. I suffered immeasurable retaliation for many years, despite hiring one of the nation's "best" legal firms for Federal employee rights. In the end, they were only after billing hours and confessed they really couldn't do anything to protect me if they tried to remove me from Federal service - only fight it after the fact.

Tried the chain of command, the IG, EEOC, Congress, you name it - when an organization is rotten, you are doomed. Sure, there were plenty of people who witnessed this stuff but they were absolutely terrified of the retaliation they knew they would face.

The final straw was when my supervisor coerced two employees to file false charges against ME (both within just a few weeks of each other!) and in exchange, he was going to approve full-time telework agreements for them. They now both sit at home full-time supposedly "working" for the American people but in reality one is doing an at-home business and the other does work for their spouse's company.

I fully understand why you bring up the recent tragedy in Mexico Beach and why most of us Feds have nothing to complain about. I have always been very aware of who I work for - it is ALL the American people. And they deserved the very best I could give and more - which is what I always did.
nightchop  
#38 Posted : Friday, October 19, 2018 6:48:58 AM(UTC)

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What a shame your attorney couldn't help you, FedUpFed. It's a good thing all attorneys aren't like that. It helps if you're aware of documented, negative patterns within your organization. Better if you know some of their "secrets". The good thing is, you got out and were able to retire. Congrats!
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