Federal Career Planning and Development

What grade are you, and what was the grade level for the job posted in both announcements?

Well that is the lowest grade that they were wanting to hire people then. Did you have a option to choose the 9, 11,or 12? If you applied to the position as a GS-9 and you clicked that you would take a 9 then that's what they hired you on for.

So, you are going to turn down the TO out of spite? Not very long term focused, are you?

Couple of points:

1. The reason given above with regard to vet preference explains why they may have used the MP list vice the other one (and is very common).

2. With regard to negotiating salary: Based on your statement "...and federal gov (which I've been for a year)." I assume you are a current fed, therefore, regardless of which list they used, you would not be able to negotiate the salary. If you are a current fed and they select you from a MP list, you cannot negotiate salary; federal pay setting rules apply. If they select you from the DE list, you would have to have a break in service of 90 days before you could negotiate the salary; else they could set your pay a couple of different ways: 1) step 1 or 2) use highest previous rate to essentially set your step the same as it currently exists.

Not underhanded HR tactics...federal laws, rules, polices and/or regulations!

The job announcement says:
To qualify at the GS-11 level, applicants must possess one year of specialized experience equivalent to the GS-09 level or equivalent under other pay systems in the Federal service, military or private sector.

For both MP and General Public Announcements. I read these forums from time to time, and I was too victim of "HR Underhanded Tactics" to a "We submitted your salary negotiation request" to a "There were never any requests." when I asked 2 weeks before starting. So yes, I'm sorry if I've been very skeptical.

I have worked for the private sector and wanted to come into the government in order to do something more fulfilling, to work for the country and its people. But this HR treating me like I have no other choice and that their offer is "The best offer". That's why I'm looking into this.

And for this one, they already sent me the TO with the wrong promotion number stating "None" when it does have a promotion potential of 13. So yes, I am skeptical about their competence as never in my time in the government have my experiences with HR have been positive in comparison to the private sector. Yes, I am angry and for that I apologize.

And like I said, I got "Best Qualified" (highest rank) in both announcements, and looking at my resume I know I am likely best qualified. I don't want to sound like I am full of myself, but I keep getting offers from the private sector all the time to go join them. I like to know my weight and know what is fair and what is not fair. That's all.

I'm just going to accept the TO and then reject the Final Offer. I can play the underhanded tactics game too.

Edited by user Saturday, October 20, 2018 8:29:56 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

"And like I said, I got "Best Qualified" (highest rank) in both announcements, and looking at my resume I know I am likely best qualified."

Um - you do know that that doesn't mean your application was the best qualified of every other application received, right? That there are three possible categories into which all the applications are sorted? That there were quite a few applications in the "Best Qualified" category and that generally that means those applications were graded from 90-100? And that only those in the 'Best Qualified' category were referred.

Don't take it personally.

I'm failing to see what HR did that was underhanded. It doesn't matter what cert you were selected from, there wouldn't be any salary negotiation since you are a current federal employee. The only benefit to applying to "all US citizens" announcements is if you are going for a grade that you don't meet the time-in-grade requirement for as a federal employee but your private sector experience would qualify.

Couple of comments:

1. With regard to "And like I said, I got "Best Qualified" (highest rank) in both announcements" You do realize that the score that is generated is based on an applicant's own answers to the questions, right? You also realize that everyone (for the most part) marks themselves as expert on every question regardless of their actual experience/abilities? Finally, you do realize that almost all applicants fall into the BQ group based on the inflated answers that they are providing and to get a notice saying that you are in the BQ group really means nothing in comparison to all of the other applicants or your actual experience/skills/abilities.

2. With regard to "The selecting official interviews the candidate and says "We really want this guy! HR is the one that determines GS Level and Negotiates Pay." The first part of your statement is true, however, HR is NOT who determines at which grade an applicant is selected, this is done by the selecting official. HR makes an upfront determination on which grade(s) an applicant is ELIGIBLE for and the selecting official is the one who determines the grade that they want to offer an applicant (just because someone is ELIGIBLE for a higher grade does not mean the selecting official has to select them at the higher grade). Once the selecting official submits their selection at the grade they want to offer, HR then does the pay setting (e.g., use pay setting rules for current feds, HPR for current and/or previous feds, step 1, etc.). If an applicant wants to negotiate the salary, the decision to approve/disapprove a higher salary resides with the hiring official, not with HR (at least at my agency); HR simply acts as the go between and ensures that things are documented properly.

Finally, although I won't comment with regard to the competence of the HR office that is handling your recruitment (every organization has people who aren't the best), but clearly you do not know how federal HR works and rather than bashing HR for not doing/knowing their job how about you recognize that you don't know how to do their job either!

For the "All US citizens" announcement it wouldn't matter if you were the most qualified person in the world if even one preference eligible veteran was qualified (or had a higher preference if you are also a veteran with a preference). In those circumstances, you simply could not be hired under that announcement, period. So, it's either take an offer under the Merit Promotion certificate or turn down the offer. You appear dead set on thinking there were underhanded tactics used but it seems to me that the agency did what it legitimately could to make you an offer. Why play games and accept the TO and decline the FO? Spite based on a perceived rather than real "insult"? That's seems pretty childish, but perhaps that's what you're after.

HR rules can be confusing and add to that the fact that although we all have to follow the same federal laws when hiring in the competitive service (Title 5), agencies do have some discretion in how they administer those rules. While I try to provide generalized answers that will apply across federal government the reality is that often these rules will vary from agency to agency and I believe one of the main reasons for this is Collective Bargaining Agreements (CBA) with the Union. If an agency's CBA has sections pertaining to recruitment & placement then the CBA takes precedence over federal rules. For example, a CBA could mention that all internal applicants must be referred (if qualified) regardless of the score or all internal candidates who are referred must be interviewed (federal law says the hiring official has the right to interview some, none or all of the candidates on the list, but in the example I gave the hiring official would have to interview all internal candidates because the CBA requires it.). While I can quote federal rules til the sun comes up, unless I have knowledge of any agency specific guidance (policy, CBA, etc.) my answers may or may not fit a situation exactly.