Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Federal Career Planning and Development

Are you looking to get promoted?
Maybe a change in your federal career?
Need tips on resume writing to land a federal job?
Or how to increase your salary or get a pay raise?

Join this active discussion with others climbing the same challenging career ladder.

Consider ordering some helpful resources or read today's top news stories on federal employee pay, benefits, retirement, job rights and other workplace issues by visiting FederalDaily.com.

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
orocka  
#1 Posted : Saturday, May 09, 2009 11:19:45 AM(UTC)
orocka

Rank: Groupie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/9/2007(UTC)
Posts: 114

Does time served in under an excepted service appointment count towards the attainment of career status? Specifically speaking lets say a 1st time federal employee serves 2 years under an excepted service appointment whereby they then transfer to a competitive service appointment with no break in service. Must this employee still serve 3 years under this competitive service appointment to gain career tenure or would they receive credit for time served? I checked the code of Federal Regulations and was unable to find a direct answer. With that being said can someone also point out the specific guidance. Thanks in advance for your response.
HR Spec 5613  
#2 Posted : Saturday, May 09, 2009 1:10:11 PM(UTC)
HR Spec 5613

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 8/19/2008(UTC)
Posts: 829

Actually, I'm sure you found it in 5 CFR Sec. 315.201 Service requirement for career tenure. The problem you're running into is if your excepted service position was under section (b)(1).

Look at your appointment SF50 and the conversion SF50, block 5-D, then look up this legal authority in 5 CFR or whatever the reference is.

If you leave the excepted service position (i.e., "transfer" to a different position that is in the competitive service), you would not meet the eligibility criteria that would allow the excepted service time to count toward career status.
orocka  
#3 Posted : Sunday, May 10, 2009 12:04:49 AM(UTC)
orocka

Rank: Groupie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/9/2007(UTC)
Posts: 114

Hi HR Spec,

I sincerely appreciate your response. However I remain confused by this matter nonetheless. With that being said I will provide additional information as I feel that you may be better equipped to analyze it than myself.

I served as a member of the Naval Intelligence Community from 12/2006 - 1/2009 whereby I received permanent tenure. Within that capacity the legal authority for my final SF50 is 10 U.S.C. 1601 (General Authority to Establish Excepted Service Positions, Appoint Personnel, etc). I have since vacated this position whereby I joined DHS (Competitive Service Appointment) under a merit promotion cert towards the middle of January 2009. The legal authority for my EOD SF50 is Direct Hire OPM Aut whereby I haved remained a member of the permanent tenure group. Furthermore it is my belief that this transfer was covered under an interchange agreement per 5 CFR 6.7. I'm not sure if this helps you; however, my question remains the same (must I serve a full 3 years under this competitive service appointment to gain career tenure).
HR Spec 5613  
#4 Posted : Sunday, May 10, 2009 12:05:53 PM(UTC)
HR Spec 5613

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 8/19/2008(UTC)
Posts: 829

quote:
Originally posted by orocka:
...I served as a member of the Naval Intelligence Community from 12/2006 - 1/2009 whereby I received permanent tenure. Within that capacity the legal authority for my final SF50 is 10 U.S.C. 1601 (General Authority to Establish Excepted Service Positions, Appoint Personnel, etc). I have since vacated this position whereby I joined DHS (Competitive Service Appointment) under a merit promotion cert towards the middle of January 2009. The legal authority for my EOD SF50 is Direct Hire OPM Aut whereby I haved remained a member of the permanent tenure group. Furthermore it is my belief that this transfer was covered under an interchange agreement per 5 CFR 6.7. I'm not sure if this helps you; however, my question remains the same (must I serve a full 3 years under this competitive service appointment to gain career tenure).


You were a DCIPS employee for just over two years and attained career status (code 1 in block 24 of your SF50), correct? And you transferred to a non-DoD agency, DHS, and were appointed to DHS under an OPM Direct Hire Authority. The action that brought you to DHS was not a transfer, but a new appointment.

In order to meet the conditions of the DCIPS interchange agreement, I believe you would have had to move to another DoD agency, but I don't have the interchange agreement at home to make sure. If I'm right, this "transfer" doesn't meet the conditions of 5 CFR 315.202(b)(1)(vii), because you were not appointed to DHS based on the interchange agreement. And if that's the case, the time served in the excepted service position would not count; you would have to start the three year period all over again.

However, you also stated that your DHS appointment SF50 shows you retained permanent status--still tenure group 1 in block 24. Even if the excepted service time counts, you have not completed three years, so I believe block 24 is inaccurate--it should read tenure group 2 until 12/2009, because you haven't completed three years yet.

What does your HR department say about this?
govnewbie01  
#5 Posted : Monday, May 11, 2009 11:56:17 AM(UTC)
govnewbie01

Rank: Newbie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 7/14/2007(UTC)
Posts: 26

Not to hijack this thread, but how does it work in the reverse, from competitive service to excepted service?

I've been in a competitive service position for a little under two years and I'll be moving to an excepted service agency (FBI) within the next few months. How does this affect my obtaining career tenure (I'm career conditional).

For example, if at some point, I want to go back to a competitive service position, can I apply to a merit announcement? I don't believe the FBI has an interchange agreement with OPM. Also, does my time at an excepted service agency count towards my career conditional status? I would think not and if that's the case, do I have to start from scratch if I moved back to a competitive service position?
tucker515  
#6 Posted : Monday, May 11, 2009 12:23:09 PM(UTC)
tucker515

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 5/10/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,290

When you transfer to an excepted service position, the clock "stops" on your tenure (if that makes sense). If you are a non-veteran, your reinstatement eligibility is extended by the time you spend on the excepted appointment- so as long as you are on the excepted service appointment, you will have eligibility for reinstatement. If you are otherwise in the area of consideration, you can apply for merit promotion positions, but be sure to include a copy if an SF-59 from your competitive appointment and an SF-50 showing your excepted status. For career tenure, your three years has to begin and end with a competitive appointment (there are some exceptions like FCIP). So if you spent two years in the competitive service, and then three years in the excepted service and then went back into the competitive service, you would get career tenure when you went back into the competitive service.
I am sorry, but I do not have the time to respond to private messages. I will not respond to them.
HR Spec 5613  
#7 Posted : Monday, May 11, 2009 12:27:20 PM(UTC)
HR Spec 5613

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 8/19/2008(UTC)
Posts: 829

quote:
Originally posted by govnewbie01:
Not to hijack this thread, but how does it work in the reverse, from competitive service to excepted service?

I've been in a competitive service position for a little under two years and I'll be moving to an excepted service agency (FBI) within the next few months. How does this affect my obtaining career tenure (I'm career conditional).

For example, if at some point, I want to go back to a competitive service position, can I apply to a merit announcement? I don't believe the FBI has an interchange agreement with OPM. Also, does my time at an excepted service agency count towards my career conditional status? I would think not and if that's the case, do I have to start from scratch if I moved back to a competitive service position?


The three year period must begin and end with an appointment in the competitive service (unless service begins with one of the exceptions that also count). Any service between the two competitive service appointments counts, as long as you don't have a break in service of over 30 days...you would have to start the whole three year period all over again if that happens. Also, you will be a reinstatement eligible for a competitive service position while you hold the excepted service position, and for an additional three years if you separate. The three year eligibility period is extended if, during those three years, you hold any other type of appointment, to include temporary appointments. If you're a preference eligible veteran, there is no time limit on reinstatement eligibility.
orocka  
#8 Posted : Monday, May 11, 2009 12:44:41 PM(UTC)
orocka

Rank: Groupie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/9/2007(UTC)
Posts: 114

Hi HR Spec,


You are correct whereby I attained career status (block 24 of my SF50). To that end our director of human capital advised me that my appointment was handled via transfer. As such I am not required to serve a probationary period.

I'm sure you've had a chance to review the guidance now. Nevertheless per my recollection, this interchange agreement applies across the board to all competitive service appointments. With that being said I came across the following excerpt while reviewing the guidance this evening:


Type of appointment

Persons appointed to competitive positions under the interchange agreements will receive career or career-conditional appointments, depending on whether they meet the 3-year service requirement for career tenure or are exempt from it under 5 CFR 315.201(c). Service that begins with a person's current permanent appointment in the other merit system counts toward the 3-year service requirement for career tenure. Interchange agreements do not authorize temporary or term appointments.

Henceforth taking that into consideration if my analysis is correct, I believe I would become a career employee in 12/2009 as it states that service that begins with a persons current permanent appointment in the other merit system counts towards the 3 year...Nevertheless you could very well be correct in that my SF50 is incorrect. Having said that, I will have to follow up with human capital to confirm. I've received conflicting views from our human capital to date. One individual advised that my time would count whereas two others advised me that this time would not count. Having said that I do not believe said individuals were aware of that I previously occupied a DCIPS position.
govnewbie01  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, May 12, 2009 11:10:23 AM(UTC)
govnewbie01

Rank: Newbie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 7/14/2007(UTC)
Posts: 26

Thanks for laying out the information so clearly.

Other than having to start career tenure over and having to pay for health insurance after 30 days, are there any other problems I should be aware of if I did have a break in service for more than 30 days?
HR Spec 5613  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, May 12, 2009 12:11:28 PM(UTC)
HR Spec 5613

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 8/19/2008(UTC)
Posts: 829

If you are in a non-pay status (leave without pay) or off the rolls for 52 weeks, you would have to start a new waiting period for a within grade increase. Other than that, I can't think of any problems.

If you have a break in service of less than 180 days, whatever election or waiver you made for life insurance would still be valid...you would not have the chance to make a new election. Any break over 180 days means you would have to make an election again.
orocka  
#11 Posted : Tuesday, May 12, 2009 7:16:18 PM(UTC)
orocka

Rank: Groupie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/9/2007(UTC)
Posts: 114

Hey HR Spec,

What about me? Orocka acts like his 3 year old daughter and falls out in the floor (LOL) Frown
HR Spec 5613  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, May 13, 2009 1:45:16 AM(UTC)
HR Spec 5613

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 8/19/2008(UTC)
Posts: 829

quote:
Originally posted by orocka:
Hey HR Spec,

What about me? Orocka acts like his 3 year old daughter and falls out in the floor (LOL) Frown


Sorry, I thought your earlier post was meant to provide an update. See, you gotta be REAL clear with us HR people...if we don't see an actual question, we tend to think everything's okay.

Okay, the information you found matches what I found...the interchange agreement is NOT just for DoD, time served toward career tenure counts, etc.

Let me know if you need more information, or if HR doesn't agree.
orocka  
#13 Posted : Thursday, May 14, 2009 1:17:18 AM(UTC)
orocka

Rank: Groupie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/9/2007(UTC)
Posts: 114

Thank you HR Spec. Your point is well noted and recieved.
nikkiheaven  
#14 Posted : Thursday, May 14, 2009 3:14:35 AM(UTC)
nikkiheaven

Rank: Groupie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 1/6/2007(UTC)
Posts: 69

I say yes. I started out in the Student Career Expereince Program as an excepted employee. Two year later I was converted to Career Conditiona. In exactly 3 years, I was converted to career. The time spend as an excepted employee counted.
resolve  
#15 Posted : Saturday, August 08, 2009 1:51:49 AM(UTC)
resolve

Rank: Newbie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/17/2009(UTC)
Posts: 2

HR Spec is correct when you move from an agency coverd by excepted service to an agency covered by competitive service rules you must do so via the Interchange Agreement in order for you prior service to count in the Competitive service position. Your time served under your excepted position is creditable for competitive service. In regard, to the nature of action used to hire you under it really depends on what the recruitment method was used to select you such as: direct hire announcement, competitive examining, name select or merit promotion procedures. So, based on the information provide I believe your EOD appointment type is correct.
GS4life  
#16 Posted : Thursday, August 13, 2009 5:54:52 AM(UTC)
GS4life

Rank: Newbie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 8/13/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3

I served two years and six months in a competitive service position (2210 series).

I then transferred within the same agency to an excepted service position before reaching three years.

I am approaching 2 years in the excepted service position and currently not tenured but I have over four years with the same agency.

I have been offered another competitive service position (2210 series) with a different agency under direct hire authority.

All three positions are non-supervisory IT positions. Will I be subject to another 1 year probationary period if I accept the new job?

I have been employed with same agency continuously since Spring of 2005.

[This message was edited by GS4life on August 13, 2009 at 05:08 PM.]
GS4life  
#17 Posted : Thursday, August 13, 2009 8:35:23 AM(UTC)
GS4life

Rank: Newbie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 8/13/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3

I found this in 5 C.F.R. § 315.201
Service requirement for career tenure.

(iv) Intervening service. Certain types of service that ordinarily are not creditable are counted when they intervene between two periods of creditable service without a single break in service in excess of 30 calendar days, excepted as provided in subparagraph (H) of his paragraph. Under these conditions, credit is given for periods of service:

(A) In the excepted service of the Federal executive branch, including employment in nonappropriated fund positions in or under any Federal agency;

(B) Under temporary, term, or other nonpermanent employment in the Federal competitive service;

(C) In the Senior Executive Service;

(D) In the Federal legislative branch;

(E) In the Federal judicial branch;

(F) In the armed forces;

not exactly sure what it means though...
GS4life  
#18 Posted : Friday, August 14, 2009 12:10:31 AM(UTC)
GS4life

Rank: Newbie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 8/13/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3

§ 315.801 Probationary period; when required.

so, I think based on 315.801 because this is a new agency that I am going to I will be subject to new probationary pd and after that date be granted career status.

yes?
Rss Feed  Atom Feed
Users browsing this topic
Guest
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.


This page was generated in 1.202 seconds.