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Tectectrav  
#1 Posted : Thursday, July 4, 2019 1:44:51 PM(UTC)
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Leading up to the 4th in my station we had several hot days. Was mandatoryed to work my day off for the holiday schedule Wednesday the 3rd. Every day I had been told I can pivot and everyday I haven’t pivoted. Well Wednesday my mandatoryed in day I was told I would be carrying my route on newspaper day and 1/5th of another route. I asked what 1/5 of that route was in time he said 1 hour 10 minutes. So before I went to the street I turned in a 3996 for waiting on parcels, certs and the heat. Our start time is 8am I left for the street that day at 10:35am. About 3pm I sent them a message on my scanner saying i wouldn’t be done with my route until 5:45 due to the heat and that I still had a boost. 10 minutes later the station manager shows up on my route to talk with me because we have this everyone has to be done by 6 to make truck thing the post master expects. My station manager was confrontational with me and said “ do you know what a heat break is it’s wiping the sweat off your face taking a drink of water and getting going again” told me I was sitting in truck for a few minutes between every couple swings I have a promaster so ac to cool off. My route is all walking 12.8 miles. He told me come on I’m going to walk with you until the end of your route. So he walked half way down one swing then stood on the next then followed me in his truck for the next two. My question I guess is what course of action should I take about the heat breaks and what he told me. He also said my route was 7.5 hours at best and I needed to pick up the pace and I messed up everyone’s night that would have to come help me I shouldn’t of been mandatoryed to carry more than 8 hours on my day off anyway. The big list only worked 10 this day as well.
postalvet  
#2 Posted : Thursday, July 4, 2019 2:34:03 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Tectectrav Go to Quoted Post
Leading up to the 4th in my station we had several hot days. Was mandatoryed to work my day off for the holiday schedule Wednesday the 3rd. Every day I had been told I can pivot and everyday I haven’t pivoted. Well Wednesday my mandatoryed in day I was told I would be carrying my route on newspaper day and 1/5th of another route. I asked what 1/5 of that route was in time he said 1 hour 10 minutes. So before I went to the street I turned in a 3996 for waiting on parcels, certs and the heat. Our start time is 8am I left for the street that day at 10:35am. About 3pm I sent them a message on my scanner saying i wouldn’t be done with my route until 5:45 due to the heat and that I still had a boost. 10 minutes later the station manager shows up on my route to talk with me because we have this everyone has to be done by 6 to make truck thing the post master expects. My station manager was confrontational with me and said “ do you know what a heat break is it’s wiping the sweat off your face taking a drink of water and getting going again” told me I was sitting in truck for a few minutes between every couple swings I have a promaster so ac to cool off. My route is all walking 12.8 miles. He told me come on I’m going to walk with you until the end of your route. So he walked half way down one swing then stood on the next then followed me in his truck for the next two. My question I guess is what course of action should I take about the heat breaks and what he told me. He also said my route was 7.5 hours at best and I needed to pick up the pace and I messed up everyone’s night that would have to come help me I shouldn’t of been mandatoryed to carry more than 8 hours on my day off anyway. The big list only worked 10 this day as well.


it takes what it takes.


file a 1767.

make sure you document what happened and get with your steward.
Postal employee (retired) 38 yrs who helps even if some do not believe me! I was a Steward, officer & trouble maker. Just Sayin'
122intheshade  
#3 Posted : Thursday, July 4, 2019 2:39:13 PM(UTC)
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Grieve baby grieve! I have a ProMaster myself, but it's almost all boxes. I take a bathroom break every two hours, and probably park under a tree or in some sort of shade for a couple minutes every hour or so in the summer. You have to. They can't mandate heat stroke.

Believe it or not, you are allowed as many "comfort stops" as you need. Most people read that as going to the bathroom. But if you're sweating uncontrollably (or worse, not sweating all all. THEN you have real trouble) you can get some shade, wipe off, drink, use some of your drinking water to wash your face, etc. Put some cold water on your neck as well; you'll be amazed how that cools you. You'll feel it going right into your heart.

I don't get these schmucks that feel the need to harass carriers. I'm not going to work any faster just to get you a bonus.
We decide which is right; and which is an illusion. I've got blisters on me fingers!
roger.d  
#4 Posted : Thursday, July 4, 2019 4:04:54 PM(UTC)
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Has you management ever had a stand up talk and said anything to the effect of take care of yourself so you don't succumb to a heat related injury?

Have they ever said anything about what to do if you don't feel well and think you are at the beginning stages of heat stress/stroke?

Does your office have pallets of bottled water for you to take to the stree?

The reason for all this is because of this:

https://www.nalc.org/wor...orcing-heat-safety-rules

Only you can decide to work safely.

Edited by user Thursday, July 4, 2019 4:05:26 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Learn to discipline yourself, so someone else doesn't have to
Tectectrav  
#5 Posted : Thursday, July 4, 2019 4:18:43 PM(UTC)
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They do have water and they do have stand ups everyday including this day I’m talking about. Safety captain take breaks drink water go somewhere cool right In front of management. Then he shows up on my route to tell me I don’t understand what a heat break is. I’m only 3 weeks in at this station was at a different location for last 5 years. They just don’t like me cause I do things right and don’t run. Just wanted to know how to shut him down and this pivot thing. Being mandatoryed incorrectly to make 6pm and the union steward double cases carries her route that is long and 2 hours on another route in 8 hours. So we think grievances haven’t been filed I make copies and about to start going over her.

Edited by user Thursday, July 4, 2019 4:25:46 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

roger.d  
#6 Posted : Thursday, July 4, 2019 4:41:44 PM(UTC)
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Say over and over to them "I'm doing my best, I will try to do better".

Say that 4-6 times straight and they might leave in fustration.

Or, fall down and start convulsing :)
Learn to discipline yourself, so someone else doesn't have to
poorfamily  
#7 Posted : Thursday, July 4, 2019 5:20:36 PM(UTC)
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I love how the supervisor said he was going to walk with you and then had to ride around in his vehicle the rest of the day to follow you. I certainly would have had one or two smart-ass comments to make to him about that. LOL
Tectectrav  
#8 Posted : Thursday, July 4, 2019 5:31:20 PM(UTC)
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Definitely had some comments about him not walking the rest of the route with me. Definitely going to document everything in detail and grieve. Also is there a standard amount of office time no matter the flats we have?

Edited by user Thursday, July 4, 2019 5:32:22 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

roger.d  
#9 Posted : Thursday, July 4, 2019 5:54:53 PM(UTC)
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Yes there is a fixed office time. It can very due to the makeup of the route. Approximately 30-45 minutes for vehicle inspection, edit book, COA... work.
Learn to discipline yourself, so someone else doesn't have to
colty31  
#10 Posted : Thursday, July 4, 2019 6:49:50 PM(UTC)
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when he walked you, did you still finish around 5:45 like you said you would?

did you end up completing the assist? working past 6?
poorfamily  
#11 Posted : Thursday, July 4, 2019 7:58:21 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Tectectrav Go to Quoted Post
Definitely had some comments about him not walking the rest of the route with me. Definitely going to document everything in detail and grieve. Also is there a standard amount of office time no matter the flats we have?


The correct answer is no,
there is no standard office time that you have that is the same every day no matter how many flats you have.

Management's Dois program includes a fixed office time of 23 minutes in the AM. This is supposed to cover all of your duties that are not casing mail or pulling mail down.

As far as casing Flats your minimum standard is 8 per minute. However the Dois software will use a formula called 'percent to standard', which is almost always faster than eight Flats per minute.

The overall point is that, yes, there is such a thing as fixed office time. But casing mail is not included in that time. The amount of caseable mail we have each day can swing wildly, so the amount of time it takes to case that mail can swing wildly from day to day.

And if you are a carrier who ignores Management's Dois software, the route simply takes What It Takes each day. As it should be.
shackmaster  
#12 Posted : Thursday, July 4, 2019 7:59:30 PM(UTC)
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We get at least one, if not 2 or 3, texts every day on the scanner concerning heat safety. Doesn't everybody get these? I know there have been some telling you to take extra breaks if necessary. Check your text inbox and show the manager if necessary. Make sure steward knows of this and take as many heat breaks as you need, probably even more now:)
Tectectrav  
#13 Posted : Thursday, July 4, 2019 8:19:38 PM(UTC)
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Yes when he walked with me I still finished the route at 5:45 like I told him. We also get those texts on the scanners but not from our managers just from corporate saying things about the heat and to drink water and so on. Also I will be taking way more heat breaks now lol. I downloaded an OSHA app for working outdoors tells you when to take breaks and everything based on temp and heat index going to really help me document when they try to push me when it’s hot.
MPE2009  
#14 Posted : Thursday, July 4, 2019 10:27:42 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: poorfamily Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Tectectrav Go to Quoted Post
Definitely had some comments about him not walking the rest of the route with me. Definitely going to document everything in detail and grieve. Also is there a standard amount of office time no matter the flats we have?


The correct answer is no,
there is no standard office time that you have that is the same every day no matter how many flats you have.

Management's Dois program includes a fixed office time of 23 minutes in the AM. This is supposed to cover all of your duties that are not casing mail or pulling mail down.

As far as casing Flats your minimum standard is 8 per minute. However the Dois software will use a formula called 'percent to standard', which is almost always faster than eight Flats per minute.

The overall point is that, yes, there is such a thing as fixed office time. But casing mail is not included in that time. The amount of caseable mail we have each day can swing wildly, so the amount of time it takes to case that mail can swing wildly from day to day.

And if you are a carrier who ignores Management's Dois software, the route simply takes What It Takes each day. As it should be.


I believe you are correct. There is a set amount of time built into every route's office time for various duties, such as pulling mail from the hot case, etc. Then there's the time you get based on the volume of mail that is distributed to your case, which must be cased and that time varies based on volume. In the end however, there's no set time. Best they can do is try to use demonstrated ability against you or catch you snoozing.
poorfamily  
#15 Posted : Friday, July 5, 2019 3:24:15 AM(UTC)
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'Demonstrated ability' is also a management trick to try to hold you to the fastest time you have ever done on the route. Years ago an arbitrator made a national ruling that there are NO STREET STANDARDS! This includes the street time in DOIS, 'demonstrated performance' and PET. There are far too many variables from day to day and from carrier to carrier to have any kind of standard on the street.

Taking an hour lunch, shuffling your feet as you walk, taking 20 comfort stops a day can still get you discipline that will stick. But 99.9% of us are professional carriers which means "It takes what it takes".
Minnesota Postmaster  
#16 Posted : Friday, July 5, 2019 5:00:11 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: 122intheshade Go to Quoted Post
Grieve baby grieve! I have a ProMaster myself, but it's almost all boxes. I take a bathroom break every two hours, and probably park under a tree or in some sort of shade for a couple minutes every hour or so in the summer. You have to. They can't mandate heat stroke.

Believe it or not, you are allowed as many "comfort stops" as you need. Most people read that as going to the bathroom. But if you're sweating uncontrollably (or worse, not sweating all all. THEN you have real trouble) you can get some shade, wipe off, drink, use some of your drinking water to wash your face, etc. Put some cold water on your neck as well; you'll be amazed how that cools you. You'll feel it going right into your heart.

I don't get these schmucks that feel the need to harass carriers. I'm not going to work any faster just to get you a bonus.


Another way of doing it is to pour cold water or put ice on the inside of your wrist on the veins. Try it, it cools off your blood immediately.
Just because you are paranoid does not mean that they are not out to get you
Smearski  
#17 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2019 10:12:27 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Minnesota Postmaster Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: 122intheshade Go to Quoted Post
Grieve baby grieve! I have a ProMaster myself, but it's almost all boxes. I take a bathroom break every two hours, and probably park under a tree or in some sort of shade for a couple minutes every hour or so in the summer. You have to. They can't mandate heat stroke.

Believe it or not, you are allowed as many "comfort stops" as you need. Most people read that as going to the bathroom. But if you're sweating uncontrollably (or worse, not sweating all all. THEN you have real trouble) you can get some shade, wipe off, drink, use some of your drinking water to wash your face, etc. Put some cold water on your neck as well; you'll be amazed how that cools you. You'll feel it going right into your heart.

I don't get these schmucks that feel the need to harass carriers. I'm not going to work any faster just to get you a bonus.


Another way of doing it is to pour cold water or put ice on the inside of your wrist on the veins. Try it, it cools off your blood immediately.


What the hell do you know about being on a route, “postmaster”?
roger.d  
#18 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2019 10:47:48 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Smearski Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Minnesota Postmaster Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: 122intheshade Go to Quoted Post
Grieve baby grieve! I have a ProMaster myself, but it's almost all boxes. I take a bathroom break every two hours, and probably park under a tree or in some sort of shade for a couple minutes every hour or so in the summer. You have to. They can't mandate heat stroke.

Believe it or not, you are allowed as many "comfort stops" as you need. Most people read that as going to the bathroom. But if you're sweating uncontrollably (or worse, not sweating all all. THEN you have real trouble) you can get some shade, wipe off, drink, use some of your drinking water to wash your face, etc. Put some cold water on your neck as well; you'll be amazed how that cools you. You'll feel it going right into your heart.

I don't get these schmucks that feel the need to harass carriers. I'm not going to work any faster just to get you a bonus.


Another way of doing it is to pour cold water or put ice on the inside of your wrist on the veins. Try it, it cools off your blood immediately.


What the hell do you know about being on a route, “postmaster”?


Oviously you know nothing about this topic.
Learn to discipline yourself, so someone else doesn't have to
LeroyToliver  
#19 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2019 12:04:27 PM(UTC)
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Just pace yourselves and watch for any noticable idle time that you cannot explain away. This is a company that works with the DOL, OIG, Inspection Service, pays your neighbors and hires Doctors across the country to fly in and shut down your Workers Comp claims when the consequences of running for THEM catches up with YOU. They are NOT worth destroying your body over. If that Postmaster cannot wrap their entitled mind over the fact that only you determine the pace of your knees, then they need to jump on that Amazon van driving racket while they still can.
MPE2009  
#20 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2019 4:44:36 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: LeroyToliver Go to Quoted Post
Just pace yourselves and watch for any noticable idle time that you cannot explain away. This is a company that works with the DOL, OIG, Inspection Service, pays your neighbors and hires Doctors across the country to fly in and shut down your Workers Comp claims when the consequences of running for THEM catches up with YOU. They are NOT worth destroying your body over. If that Postmaster cannot wrap their entitled mind over the fact that only you determine the pace of your knees, then they need to jump on that Amazon van driving racket while they still can.


The most important thing is that you take care of yourself. Most of us that were hired on, have other options. If push comes to shove, we'll find another way to make ends meet. It might be unpleasant financially at first, but down the road, it'll all sort itself out. Waking up one morning, realizing you're never going in again and calling out "forever" isn't the worst scenario in life.
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