Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Department of Defense


The Department of Defense (DoD) is charged with coordinating and supervising all agencies and functions of the government relating directly to national security and the United States armed forces. The mission of the Department of Defense is to provide the military forces needed to deter war and to protect the security of our country.

The Department of Defense is America's oldest and largest government agency -tracing its roots back to pre-Revolutionary times. Today, the Department is not only in charge of the military, but it also employs a civilian force of thousands. With over 1.4 million men and women on active duty, and 718,000 civilian personnel, DoD is the nation's largest employer. Another 1.1 million serve in the National Guard and Reserve forces. More than 2 million military retirees and their family members receive benefits.

Perhaps you are working for the DoD or interested in working for the DoD. Here is a forum to share your experience with the DoD.
Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Ricosroughnecks  
#1 Posted : Thursday, July 11, 2019 11:37:43 AM(UTC)
Ricosroughnecks

Rank: Newbie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 7/2/2019(UTC)
Posts: 1

I recently applied to an ACQDEMO position on USAJOBS at the NH-03 payband. I was interviewed and then selected by the hiring managers. When the selection went up to the regional HR for a tentative job offer I was deemed disqualified and removed from the certificate.

I am currently a GS-07 with a year time-in-grade, have another year and a half at the GS-05 level. The DQ justification stated "one year of specialized experience at or equivalent to the next lower pay band, NH-02 (GS-11 equivalent), in the Federal service or equivalent experience in the private or public sector. This qual determination made upon selection, when it was determined that the person did not meet experience at the level specified - highest grade documented is GS-07. Removed from certificate."

Although I know I am not a GS-11, doesn't the NH-02 payband encompass GS-5 to GS-11? I have 2.5 years at the NH-02 equivalent. Am I wrong? Is there anyway to appeal?

birdonamission  
#2 Posted : Thursday, July 11, 2019 7:19:37 PM(UTC)
birdonamission

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 6/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 673

Thanks: 36 times
Was thanked: 52 time(s) in 48 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Ricosroughnecks Go to Quoted Post
Although I know I am not a GS-11, doesn't the NH-02 payband encompass GS-5 to GS-11? I have 2.5 years at the NH-02 equivalent.


I’ll take a crack at this. You said the NH-02 payband's range is GS-5 to GS-11. Picture, then, the payband as having seven segments:

Segment 1 = GS-5
Segment 2 = GS-6
Segment 3 = GS-7
Segment 4 = GS-8
Segment 5 = GS-9
Segment 6 = GS-10
Segment 7 = GS-11

GS-7 is not even halfway in the NH-02 range. You seem to be asserting you should be considered a GS-11 equivalent just because GS-7 is in the same range of GS grades as GS-11 that’s supposed to equate to NH-02. As much as I sympathize with your situation, I don’t know how convincing that argument is given that GS-5 is considered very junior and GS-11 is more mid-career — and GS-7 is a lot closer to GS-5 than it is to GS-11 (therefore the equivalency isn’t there).

Does that make sense? Anyway, this is just one perspective. Maybe others have a different take.
Polar Bear  
#3 Posted : Friday, July 12, 2019 1:49:43 AM(UTC)
Polar Bear

Rank: Advisor

Groups: Registered
Joined: 6/24/2018(UTC)
Posts: 134
United States
Location: MO

Thanks: 18 times
Was thanked: 8 time(s) in 8 post(s)
Seems kind of weird to me you'd make it past the initial HR screen, through the selecting official, and then this happens. (Weird from an outsider's perspective, I'm not nor have ever been fed HR). All of my applications that were accepted/processed/offered/whatever were 5-11. I declined all the 5s, am currently working a recent grad 7/9, and both accepted TJOs or declined declined them 9/11s depending. (most recently hoping to hear final good news after a 9/11 TJO I accepted.) I've always applied as public or through some other hiring authority where TIG did not matter.

I think perhaps what HR was trying to say is if you were applying to NH-03 (which starts at a 12), and had to be considered as an internal applicant/competitive applicant that they meant you had to have 1 yr TIG at the next lowest, which for them is 11? I dunno. I am sorry that happened to you, truly I am.
Endless Summer  
#4 Posted : Friday, July 12, 2019 2:55:10 AM(UTC)
Endless Summer

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 6/7/2016(UTC)
Posts: 715

Thanks: 16 times
Was thanked: 164 time(s) in 143 post(s)
I think their wording could have been better, but here's my guess at what they actually meant.

A GS-5 does not have the same responsibilities and position description as a GS-11 even though their job series are the same. They seem to be looking for someone with the 11 experience and responsibilities.

You could ask them, in a non-accusatory way, if you misunderstood the wording of the job post.

I'm sorry to hear you got yanked around like this and I wish you luck in the future
nembamike  
#5 Posted : Friday, July 12, 2019 4:35:19 AM(UTC)

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 10/22/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,205

Was thanked: 207 time(s) in 186 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Polar Bear Go to Quoted Post
Seems kind of weird to me you'd make it past the initial HR screen, through the selecting official, and then this happens. (Weird from an outsider's perspective, I'm not nor have ever been fed HR). All of my applications that were accepted/processed/offered/whatever were 5-11. I declined all the 5s, am currently working a recent grad 7/9, and both accepted TJOs or declined declined them 9/11s depending. (most recently hoping to hear final good news after a 9/11 TJO I accepted.) I've always applied as public or through some other hiring authority where TIG did not matter.

I think perhaps what HR was trying to say is if you were applying to NH-03 (which starts at a 12), and had to be considered as an internal applicant/competitive applicant that they meant you had to have 1 yr TIG at the next lowest, which for them is 11? I dunno. I am sorry that happened to you, truly I am.


Would agree something doesn't add up here especially since you were referred, interviewed and selected. I'm in demo as an NT-04 which is same as GS-11/12 and certainly one makes more based on their skills and what they are doing. If an NH-02 is truly same as GS-5 - GS-11 that to me part of the problem. That's a really big range to be considered for.
HR Bubba  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2019 2:46:05 AM(UTC)

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 11/4/2013(UTC)
Posts: 737

Thanks: 27 times
Was thanked: 235 time(s) in 188 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Polar Bear Go to Quoted Post
Seems kind of weird to me you'd make it past the initial HR screen, through the selecting official, and then this happens. (Weird from an outsider's perspective, I'm not nor have ever been fed HR). All of my applications that were accepted/processed/offered/whatever were 5-11. I declined all the 5s, am currently working a recent grad 7/9, and both accepted TJOs or declined declined them 9/11s depending. (most recently hoping to hear final good news after a 9/11 TJO I accepted.) I've always applied as public or through some other hiring authority where TIG did not matter.

I think perhaps what HR was trying to say is if you were applying to NH-03 (which starts at a 12), and had to be considered as an internal applicant/competitive applicant that they meant you had to have 1 yr TIG at the next lowest, which for them is 11? I dunno. I am sorry that happened to you, truly I am.


Time in grade rules do not apply to AcqDemo.

HR Bubba  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2019 3:02:25 AM(UTC)

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 11/4/2013(UTC)
Posts: 737

Thanks: 27 times
Was thanked: 235 time(s) in 188 post(s)
The answer to this may be that because the "best qualified" group is determined by a score that is generated based on an applicant's own answers to the occupational questionnaire, the score is essentially useless. Most applicants (not all) simply answer "expert" to every question so you end up with a group of applicants who mostly score 100%. In order to try and manage how long it takes to develop a referral list, some agencies are now issuing "unscreened" lists to the selecting officials. The value here is that HR does not have to manually screen all of the applicants up front, they simply screen the applicant that is selected. The down side is that the individual who is selected may not actually meet the requirements of the position (e.g., education (if required), time in grade, etc.) so an offer will not be extended and the selecting official will have to select a different candidate. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. The system is broken and I believe that as long as we use a system that is based on an applicant's own self assessment of their skills these types of situations will continue.

Also, (and this is strictly an opinion) when it comes to demonstration projects, GS employees get the short end of the stick when it comes to qualifications. But, this is due to how the demo regulations are written, not because of anything that HR is doing. I am an HR person and completely disagree with how the process works, but just because I disagree with it does not mean I can simply ignore the rules.
thanks 1 user thanked for this useful post.
Polar Bear on 7/17/2019(UTC)
Rss Feed  Atom Feed
Users browsing this topic
Guest
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.


This page was generated in 0.899 seconds.