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RodOrRob  
#81 Posted : Wednesday, July 24, 2019 6:39:28 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: colty31 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: poorfamily Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: colty31 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: poorfamily Go to Quoted Post
I just know that if I have a spur with delivery confirmation that won't fit in a mounted box because the box is full I will scan it as 'box full' and the scanner tells me to leave a 3849.


When that happens I pull all the mail and make the customer pick up everything at the office. It's satisfying to do this to customers who never empty their boxes but want their amazon sprs.


Interfering with a customer's mail delivery out of spite isn't the best idea to say the least. Once the mail is in the box our job is done and the mail belongs to the customer.

If more mail won't fit in the box by all means take it back, leave a notice, make the customer come get it. But don't take back good mail you've already delivered to a good active address.


We have been instructed to pull ALL MAIL when a box is full. Otherwise you would be putting a notice into a box that is already full with mail and would then still be full the next day. How does does that make sense?

We leave a notice and if the customer doesn't come to pick up their mail within 10 days it all gets sent back (I usually give around 14 days)


NOWHERE does it state to pull the box, the rule is notify the box is full (doesn't matter if they ever get the notice) and return the residual mail after 10 days...leaving their box full.
This has been debated on this forum a few times at least.

That being said, I have been instructed to return the mail (taken from the box, yes, told by supervisor to remove it) and return it all unclaimed. Let it fill up again, and return unclaimed every time. No need to fill out a 3575X if you know they still live there.
RodOrRob  
#82 Posted : Wednesday, July 24, 2019 6:46:50 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: colty31 Go to Quoted Post
I confirmed with senior carriers and supervisors at my office that we have been instructed to leave all certs/signature parcels if a customer has signed a 3849.

The whole a "signed 3849" does not count as a signature is a VERY OLD way of thinking that hasn't been used since the 1990s (at least in my large 100+ route office)

We have been told that when a customer signs a 3849 requesting re-delivery they are relinquishing their right to sign in person, thereby allowing us to leave the package. If they want to sign in person they can come to the office.


That's too bad that they can't follow what the manual states...kind of meaningless to the rest of the Postal Service who know (and follow) what the manual states regarding items the sender pays for that require a signature. Clearly your carriers worry too much about making 8, and never consider the Service aspect of the USPS.

as far as "relinquishing their right" ...

PLEASE show us where that is stated.
Hannah Blecter  
#83 Posted : Wednesday, July 24, 2019 6:52:56 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: colty31 Go to Quoted Post
I confirmed with senior carriers and supervisors at my office that we have been instructed to leave all certs/signature parcels if a customer has signed a 3849.

The whole a "signed 3849" does not count as a signature is a VERY OLD way of thinking that hasn't been used since the 1990s (at least in my large 100+ route office)

We have been told that when a customer signs a 3849 requesting re-delivery they are relinquishing their right to sign in person, thereby allowing us to leave the package. If they want to sign in person they can come to the office.


"when a customer signs a 3849 requesting re-delivery they are relinquishing their right to sign in person"

And how do you determine that the person with the right to sign in person was the person who signed the 3849?
thanks 1 user thanked Hannah Blecter for this useful post.
RodOrRob on 7/25/2019(UTC)
colty31  
#84 Posted : Wednesday, July 24, 2019 7:00:33 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Hannah Blecter Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: colty31 Go to Quoted Post
I confirmed with senior carriers and supervisors at my office that we have been instructed to leave all certs/signature parcels if a customer has signed a 3849.

The whole a "signed 3849" does not count as a signature is a VERY OLD way of thinking that hasn't been used since the 1990s (at least in my large 100+ route office)

We have been told that when a customer signs a 3849 requesting re-delivery they are relinquishing their right to sign in person, thereby allowing us to leave the package. If they want to sign in person they can come to the office.


"when a customer signs a 3849 requesting re-delivery they are relinquishing their right to sign in person"

And how do you determine that the person with the right to sign in person was the person who signed the 3849?


if it was a locked mailbox (which 90% of mine are) I can safely say I'm 99% sure, for all the others I guess I'm living life on the wild side
colty31  
#85 Posted : Wednesday, July 24, 2019 7:06:21 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: RodOrRob Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: colty31 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: poorfamily Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: colty31 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: poorfamily Go to Quoted Post
I just know that if I have a spur with delivery confirmation that won't fit in a mounted box because the box is full I will scan it as 'box full' and the scanner tells me to leave a 3849.


When that happens I pull all the mail and make the customer pick up everything at the office. It's satisfying to do this to customers who never empty their boxes but want their amazon sprs.


Interfering with a customer's mail delivery out of spite isn't the best idea to say the least. Once the mail is in the box our job is done and the mail belongs to the customer.

If more mail won't fit in the box by all means take it back, leave a notice, make the customer come get it. But don't take back good mail you've already delivered to a good active address.


We have been instructed to pull ALL MAIL when a box is full. Otherwise you would be putting a notice into a box that is already full with mail and would then still be full the next day. How does does that make sense?

We leave a notice and if the customer doesn't come to pick up their mail within 10 days it all gets sent back (I usually give around 14 days)


NOWHERE does it state to pull the box, the rule is notify the box is full (doesn't matter if they ever get the notice) and return the residual mail after 10 days...leaving their box full.
This has been debated on this forum a few times at least.

That being said, I have been instructed to return the mail (taken from the box, yes, told by supervisor to remove it) and return it all unclaimed. Let it fill up again, and return unclaimed every time. No need to fill out a 3575X if you know they still live there.


The issue with that method is that your "box is full" notice will most likely get lost in the shuffle if the mail does eventually get picked up.

I like the clear-cut message that an empty box with just a slip presents to the customer. They open that box and they know they messed up, they neglected to pick up their mail for 2, 3 or even 4 weeks, and now they have to make an inconvenient trip to the post office.

I should note that my stance on "box fulls" is heavily influenced by the route I own. I have days where I pull 4-5 boxes worth of mail on my route. (City delivery/all apt buildings)

Edited by user Wednesday, July 24, 2019 7:07:15 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Seadogg  
#86 Posted : Wednesday, July 24, 2019 7:43:22 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: poorfamily Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: colty31 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: poorfamily Go to Quoted Post
I just know that if I have a spur with delivery confirmation that won't fit in a mounted box because the box is full I will scan it as 'box full' and the scanner tells me to leave a 3849.


When that happens I pull all the mail and make the customer pick up everything at the office. It's satisfying to do this to customers who never empty their boxes but want their amazon sprs.


Interfering with a customer's mail delivery out of spite isn't the best idea to say the least. Once the mail is in the box our job is done and the mail belongs to the customer.

If more mail won't fit in the box by all means take it back, leave a notice, make the customer come get it. But don't take back good mail you've already delivered to a good active address.


If mail is piling up in a box, what makes you think its a "good active address"? My first thought is that the person may have moved out. Obviously we don't want to do anything out of spite, but at the same time, a line must be drawn, especially with those tiny boxes that fit like 3 letters.
BusyMom  
#87 Posted : Friday, July 26, 2019 9:03:18 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: colty31 Go to Quoted Post
I confirmed with senior carriers and supervisors at my office that we have been instructed to leave all certs/signature parcels if a customer has signed a 3849.

The whole a "signed 3849" does not count as a signature is a VERY OLD way of thinking that hasn't been used since the 1990s (at least in my large 100+ route office)

We have been told that when a customer signs a 3849 requesting re-delivery they are relinquishing their right to sign in person, thereby allowing us to leave the package. If they want to sign in person they can come to the office.


It's not about the recipient's "right" to sign in person. It's about our other customer, the one who paid for the extra services, his/her right to get the service they paid for.

Often times, certified letters are about court documentation. The sender NEEDS the recipient's signature to prove they have been served.

Stop that, you make us all look bad.
thanks 1 user thanked BusyMom for this useful post.
RodOrRob on 7/27/2019(UTC)
colty31  
#88 Posted : Saturday, July 27, 2019 6:05:50 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: BusyMom Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: colty31 Go to Quoted Post
I confirmed with senior carriers and supervisors at my office that we have been instructed to leave all certs/signature parcels if a customer has signed a 3849.

The whole a "signed 3849" does not count as a signature is a VERY OLD way of thinking that hasn't been used since the 1990s (at least in my large 100+ route office)

We have been told that when a customer signs a 3849 requesting re-delivery they are relinquishing their right to sign in person, thereby allowing us to leave the package. If they want to sign in person they can come to the office.


It's not about the recipient's "right" to sign in person. It's about our other customer, the one who paid for the extra services, his/her right to get the service they paid for.

Often times, certified letters are about court documentation. The sender NEEDS the recipient's signature to prove they have been served.

Stop that, you make us all look bad.



If the recipient's signature is on the 3849, then that would get scanned and meet the "proof" that someone was served.

We are just following orders here. How it's been done since 2008.
Hannah Blecter  
#89 Posted : Saturday, July 27, 2019 6:29:39 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: colty31 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: BusyMom Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: colty31 Go to Quoted Post
I confirmed with senior carriers and supervisors at my office that we have been instructed to leave all certs/signature parcels if a customer has signed a 3849.

The whole a "signed 3849" does not count as a signature is a VERY OLD way of thinking that hasn't been used since the 1990s (at least in my large 100+ route office)

We have been told that when a customer signs a 3849 requesting re-delivery they are relinquishing their right to sign in person, thereby allowing us to leave the package. If they want to sign in person they can come to the office.


It's not about the recipient's "right" to sign in person. It's about our other customer, the one who paid for the extra services, his/her right to get the service they paid for.

Often times, certified letters are about court documentation. The sender NEEDS the recipient's signature to prove they have been served.

Stop that, you make us all look bad.



If the recipient's signature is on the 3849, then that would get scanned and meet the "proof" that someone was served.

We are just following orders here. How it's been done since 2008.


And that word "if" is why this is an issue.
thanks 1 user thanked Hannah Blecter for this useful post.
RodOrRob on 7/27/2019(UTC)
RodOrRob  
#90 Posted : Saturday, July 27, 2019 7:21:26 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: colty31 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: BusyMom Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: colty31 Go to Quoted Post
I confirmed with senior carriers and supervisors at my office that we have been instructed to leave all certs/signature parcels if a customer has signed a 3849.

The whole a "signed 3849" does not count as a signature is a VERY OLD way of thinking that hasn't been used since the 1990s (at least in my large 100+ route office)

We have been told that when a customer signs a 3849 requesting re-delivery they are relinquishing their right to sign in person, thereby allowing us to leave the package. If they want to sign in person they can come to the office.


It's not about the recipient's "right" to sign in person. It's about our other customer, the one who paid for the extra services, his/her right to get the service they paid for.

Often times, certified letters are about court documentation. The sender NEEDS the recipient's signature to prove they have been served.

Stop that, you make us all look bad.



If the recipient's signature is on the 3849, then that would get scanned and meet the "proof" that someone was served.

We are just following orders here. How it's been done since 2008.


It's been shown that the orders you are following are incorrect. Why do you continue to argue a point that has been proven wrong?

Feel free to question yourself why you are deciding to knowingly follow incorrect orders.

I'm sure there are other incorrect directives your office does...many offices have idiots in charge who decide to give directives that are in violation of handbooks/manuals/contract.

Don't continue to enable those idiots. Take a stand, do it correctly...you won't get in trouble when you have the manuals as proof.

But, do it their (incorrect) way and when you get disciplined, watch how fast they claim you are doing it wrong.

Seadogg  
#91 Posted : Saturday, July 27, 2019 8:19:06 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: RodOrRob Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: colty31 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: BusyMom Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: colty31 Go to Quoted Post
I confirmed with senior carriers and supervisors at my office that we have been instructed to leave all certs/signature parcels if a customer has signed a 3849.

The whole a "signed 3849" does not count as a signature is a VERY OLD way of thinking that hasn't been used since the 1990s (at least in my large 100+ route office)

We have been told that when a customer signs a 3849 requesting re-delivery they are relinquishing their right to sign in person, thereby allowing us to leave the package. If they want to sign in person they can come to the office.


It's not about the recipient's "right" to sign in person. It's about our other customer, the one who paid for the extra services, his/her right to get the service they paid for.

Often times, certified letters are about court documentation. The sender NEEDS the recipient's signature to prove they have been served.

Stop that, you make us all look bad.



We are just following orders here. How it's been done since 2008.


It's been shown that the orders you are following are incorrect. Why do you continue to argue a point that has been proven wrong?

Feel free to question yourself why you are deciding to knowingly follow incorrect orders.

I'm sure there are other incorrect directives your office does...many offices have idiots in charge who decide to give directives that are in violation of handbooks/manuals/contract.

Don't continue to enable those idiots. Take a stand, do it correctly...you won't get in trouble when you have the manuals as proof.

But, do it their (incorrect) way and when you get disciplined, watch how fast they claim you are doing it wrong.



I thought we were supposed to follow a direct order from mgmt unless it is illegal or unsafe. Article 3 and all that.

Not saying you're wrong about the "correct" procedure. I would certainly not do any of this without a direct order. But that is what we are talking about.

Edited by user Saturday, July 27, 2019 8:22:00 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

RodOrRob  
#92 Posted : Saturday, July 27, 2019 8:34:17 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Seadogg Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RodOrRob Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: colty31 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: BusyMom Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: colty31 Go to Quoted Post
I confirmed with senior carriers and supervisors at my office that we have been instructed to leave all certs/signature parcels if a customer has signed a 3849.

The whole a "signed 3849" does not count as a signature is a VERY OLD way of thinking that hasn't been used since the 1990s (at least in my large 100+ route office)

We have been told that when a customer signs a 3849 requesting re-delivery they are relinquishing their right to sign in person, thereby allowing us to leave the package. If they want to sign in person they can come to the office.


It's not about the recipient's "right" to sign in person. It's about our other customer, the one who paid for the extra services, his/her right to get the service they paid for.

Often times, certified letters are about court documentation. The sender NEEDS the recipient's signature to prove they have been served.

Stop that, you make us all look bad.



We are just following orders here. How it's been done since 2008.


It's been shown that the orders you are following are incorrect. Why do you continue to argue a point that has been proven wrong?

Feel free to question yourself why you are deciding to knowingly follow incorrect orders.

I'm sure there are other incorrect directives your office does...many offices have idiots in charge who decide to give directives that are in violation of handbooks/manuals/contract.

Don't continue to enable those idiots. Take a stand, do it correctly...you won't get in trouble when you have the manuals as proof.

But, do it their (incorrect) way and when you get disciplined, watch how fast they claim you are doing it wrong.



I thought we were supposed to follow a direct order from mgmt unless it is illegal or unsafe. Article 3 and all that.

Not saying you're wrong about the "correct" procedure. I would certainly not do any of this without a direct order. But that is what we are talking about.


Wonder if he actually received a direct order to deliver these...more than likely, management is condoning the carrier just delivering without signing in person.

Of course, follow a direct order, but if not given that order, just do it correctly. Ya can't go wrong following the rule book, right?
MPE2009  
#93 Posted : Sunday, July 28, 2019 8:23:05 AM(UTC)
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In my experience, outside of businesses and even then, most customers don't have a clue that their certified letters creates such a hassle for the recipient and the post office. They don't even care. I also don't think they care if the recipient signs in person or signs the slip and places it back in the box. Certified mail isn't really much of a premium product anyway. All it does is provide a receipt proving it was mailed and sometimes that it was received. It simply fulfills a legal requirement. Certified mail is a product of ancient times, just like letter mail has become. If there weren't legal requirements to prove that a customer was notified by US MAIL then certifieds wouldn't even exist anymore. When's the last time you saw a personal letter? Postcard? Easier to email, text, send a selfie....

So what does that leave us with? Advertising mail and parcels. So a lot of this discussion about certifieds is incredibly useless. It would be more useful to figure out what we could do to remain relevant and even create new revenue sources.
RodOrRob  
#94 Posted : Wednesday, July 31, 2019 6:59:02 PM(UTC)
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https://faq.usps.com/s/a...m-3849-Redelivery-Notice

Can a carrier sign for a mailpiece linked to a PS Form 3849?

Carriers may sign for Return Receipt for Merchandise and Priority Mail Express, provided a waiver of signature is indicated by the sender.

https://faq.usps.com/s/a...o-Accept-Your-Redelivery

note the bolded part

What are the Guidelines for Authorized Agents?

The term "addressee’s agent" refers to someone authorized to represent the addressee. An addressee agent is usually a friend of the family who’s authorized to pick up a package.

The item can only be redelivered to the address originally stated on the mailpiece.
On a Redelivery, the addressee (or an authorized agent) must be present to sign for an Accountable Mailpiece (For example, an item with Signature Confirmation).
Kc-cca  
#95 Posted : Thursday, August 1, 2019 12:31:27 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: colty31 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: MPE2009 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: NEmailman Go to Quoted Post
On the back of the 3849 it states:

Please redeliver on this date________and leave at

check one ( ) front door ( ) back door ( ) porch ( ) garage ( ) other


That does not apply to any mail piece which requires a signature at the time of delivery.


Then why is it even on the form?

If it didn't require a signature we would have already delivered/left the package somewhere.

For things you didn'feel safe leaving. Like Grandma's gift package in a unsafe neighborhood, or it was raining and there's no dry place
colty31  
#96 Posted : Thursday, August 1, 2019 4:40:47 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Seadogg Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: poorfamily Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: colty31 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: poorfamily Go to Quoted Post
I just know that if I have a spur with delivery confirmation that won't fit in a mounted box because the box is full I will scan it as 'box full' and the scanner tells me to leave a 3849.


When that happens I pull all the mail and make the customer pick up everything at the office. It's satisfying to do this to customers who never empty their boxes but want their amazon sprs.


Interfering with a customer's mail delivery out of spite isn't the best idea to say the least. Once the mail is in the box our job is done and the mail belongs to the customer.

If more mail won't fit in the box by all means take it back, leave a notice, make the customer come get it. But don't take back good mail you've already delivered to a good active address.


If mail is piling up in a box, what makes you think its a "good active address"? My first thought is that the person may have moved out. Obviously we don't want to do anything out of spite, but at the same time, a line must be drawn, especially with those tiny boxes that fit like 3 letters.


mail "piles up" on good addresses weekly on my route.

It's up to me to "train" the customers on my route that they need to pick up their mail AND have all names listed on the box.

Again, my route is 90% apt buildings with high turnover so it's much different than your run of the mill single family home route/
thanks 1 user thanked colty31 for this useful post.
MPE2009 on 8/1/2019(UTC)
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