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122intheshade  
#1 Posted : Sunday, July 14, 2019 10:56:03 AM(UTC)
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In my office last week, several carriers were stopped on the way out the door, and each had a brief meeting with a supervisor.
The subject was "forged signatures".

Each carrier was shown a complaint, presumably by a customer, the subject being that something was "delivered" (not stolen) with an unauthorized or unrecognized signature. Locations were GPS'd, signatures off the scanner printed on a paper.

The implication was that carriers, in the interest of expediency, signed the scanner themselves. As far as I know, none signed the form "admitting" to this.

So, the question is, how do these things usually resolve themselves? This is the first time I've seen something like this. Granted, I've only worked as a carrier since 2011. Does this mean the practice is so rampant that management finally decided to crack down? Or that some poor schnook signed a supervisor's (or higher-up) name to a cert or registered?

And what eventually happens to the carriers? Run-of-the-mill LOW? Termination? Something in between? I'm totally ignorant on this one, so I'm curious how other offices have dealt with it.
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postalvet  
#2 Posted : Sunday, July 14, 2019 12:33:07 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: 122intheshade Go to Quoted Post
In my office last week, several carriers were stopped on the way out the door, and each had a brief meeting with a supervisor.
The subject was "forged signatures".

Each carrier was shown a complaint, presumably by a customer, the subject being that something was "delivered" (not stolen) with an unauthorized or unrecognized signature. Locations were GPS'd, signatures off the scanner printed on a paper.

The implication was that carriers, in the interest of expediency, signed the scanner themselves. As far as I know, none signed the form "admitting" to this.

So, the question is, how do these things usually resolve themselves? This is the first time I've seen something like this. Granted, I've only worked as a carrier since 2011. Does this mean the practice is so rampant that management finally decided to crack down? Or that some poor schnook signed a supervisor's (or higher-up) name to a cert or registered?

And what eventually happens to the carriers? Run-of-the-mill LOW? Termination? Something in between? I'm totally ignorant on this one, so I'm curious how other offices have dealt with it.


what happens is up to management, could be those involved are issued a letter of removal.


depends on how much management wants to do.
Postal employee (retired) 38 yrs who helps even if some do not believe me! I was a Steward, officer & trouble maker. Just Sayin'
John Henry  
#3 Posted : Sunday, July 14, 2019 2:55:06 PM(UTC)

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Yes the practice is rampant just like they were late in responding to falsified scans now they are trying to play catch up since the customer can pull a signature online instead of waiting for the service to go through all the 3849s and oops just not not finding the correct quarter slip of paper. So now management has just fired a warning shot across your collective bows. The next time a complaint comes in expect the next step in progressive discipline.
colty31  
#4 Posted : Sunday, July 14, 2019 4:34:16 PM(UTC)
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When you deliver a signature required package, some of the options for who signed are:

neighbor
authorized agent

When is the correct time to to use these? I initially saw this as finding someone at the house/apt building that feels comfortable signing for it. But are these 2 options only meant to be used with prior approval from the customer?

Also, if you have a customer who gets a lot of signature packages and has given YOU the carrier permission to sign and leave these, would that make you an authorized agent?
roger.d  
#5 Posted : Sunday, July 14, 2019 4:51:36 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: colty31 Go to Quoted Post
When you deliver a signature required package, some of the options for who signed are:

neighbor
authorized agent

When is the correct time to to use these? I initially saw this as finding someone at the house/apt building that feels comfortable signing for it. But are these 2 options only meant to be used with prior approval from the customer?

Also, if you have a customer who gets a lot of signature packages and has given YOU the carrier permission to sign and leave these, would that make you an authorized agent?


You have answered your own question.
Learn to discipline yourself, so someone else doesn't have to
postalvet  
#6 Posted : Sunday, July 14, 2019 4:54:11 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: colty31 Go to Quoted Post
When you deliver a signature required package, some of the options for who signed are:

neighbor
authorized agent

When is the correct time to to use these? I initially saw this as finding someone at the house/apt building that feels comfortable signing for it. But are these 2 options only meant to be used with prior approval from the customer?

Also, if you have a customer who gets a lot of signature packages and has given YOU the carrier permission to sign and leave these, would that make you an authorized agent?


if the customer has given permission there better be some kind of paper work to back it up


and yes the two issues you mentioned have to be approved by the customer in my opinion.
Postal employee (retired) 38 yrs who helps even if some do not believe me! I was a Steward, officer & trouble maker. Just Sayin'
thanks 1 user thanked postalvet for this useful post.
MPE2009 on 7/15/2019(UTC)
colty31  
#7 Posted : Sunday, July 14, 2019 5:22:58 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: roger.d Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: colty31 Go to Quoted Post
When you deliver a signature required package, some of the options for who signed are:

neighbor
authorized agent

When is the correct time to to use these? I initially saw this as finding someone at the house/apt building that feels comfortable signing for it. But are these 2 options only meant to be used with prior approval from the customer?

Also, if you have a customer who gets a lot of signature packages and has given YOU the carrier permission to sign and leave these, would that make you an authorized agent?


You have answered your own question.


I asked multiple questions above. Your response doesn't make sense, especially for my "authorized agent" question.
roger.d  
#8 Posted : Sunday, July 14, 2019 6:05:17 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: colty31 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: roger.d Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: colty31 Go to Quoted Post
When you deliver a signature required package, some of the options for who signed are:

neighbor
authorized agent

When is the correct time to to use these? I initially saw this as finding someone at the house/apt building that feels comfortable signing for it. But are these 2 options only meant to be used with prior approval from the customer?

Also, if you have a customer who gets a lot of signature packages and has given YOU the carrier permission to sign and leave these, would that make you an authorized agent?


You have answered your own question.


I asked multiple questions above. Your response doesn't make sense, especially for my "authorized agent" question.


Are you, or the neighbors, their authorized agent?

Are the neighbors friends? Or will they toss the letter/package in the trash.

Don't over think this.
Learn to discipline yourself, so someone else doesn't have to
Seadogg  
#9 Posted : Sunday, July 14, 2019 6:11:51 PM(UTC)
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I believe this is common practice, one of the many idiotic things carriers do. It saves both carrier time and clerk time, and 95% of the time is appreciated by the customer. It's the sort of thing management loves for you to do, until they don't.
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John Henry on 7/14/2019(UTC)
RodOrRob  
#10 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2019 3:50:10 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: colty31 Go to Quoted Post
When you deliver a signature required package, some of the options for who signed are:

neighbor
authorized agent

When is the correct time to to use these? I initially saw this as finding someone at the house/apt building that feels comfortable signing for it. But are these 2 options only meant to be used with prior approval from the customer?

Also, if you have a customer who gets a lot of signature packages and has given YOU the carrier permission to sign and leave these, would that make you an authorized agent?


The carrier can not be the agent to sign. EVER.

http://photobucket.com/g...Bza3RpczRzY3cuanBn/?ref=
MPE2009  
#11 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2019 7:23:04 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: colty31 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: roger.d Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: colty31 Go to Quoted Post
When you deliver a signature required package, some of the options for who signed are:

neighbor
authorized agent

When is the correct time to to use these? I initially saw this as finding someone at the house/apt building that feels comfortable signing for it. But are these 2 options only meant to be used with prior approval from the customer?

Also, if you have a customer who gets a lot of signature packages and has given YOU the carrier permission to sign and leave these, would that make you an authorized agent?


You have answered your own question.


I asked multiple questions above. Your response doesn't make sense, especially for my "authorized agent" question.


His answer made perfect sense for the authorized agent. You had better have it in writing that the recipient appoints you as his authorized agent, even better have it notarized.
MPE2009  
#12 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2019 7:27:36 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: RodOrRob Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: colty31 Go to Quoted Post
When you deliver a signature required package, some of the options for who signed are:

neighbor
authorized agent

When is the correct time to to use these? I initially saw this as finding someone at the house/apt building that feels comfortable signing for it. But are these 2 options only meant to be used with prior approval from the customer?

Also, if you have a customer who gets a lot of signature packages and has given YOU the carrier permission to sign and leave these, would that make you an authorized agent?


The carrier can not be the agent to sign. EVER.

http://photobucket.com/g...Bza3RpczRzY3cuanBn/?ref=


I disagree, that's an opinion piece and probably fair warning too. But I know of no regulation forbidding it. But if you don't have it in writing that the customer authorizes your acting as his agent..... DON'T DO IT.
valeriep  
#13 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2019 2:49:17 PM(UTC)
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How about if the customer signs the 3849 Form and authorizes the carrier to scan it and leave the package /certified mail in the mailbox? I have had one customer sign the 3849 and tell me that I can use it anytime in the future if there is a need. Is that allowed? Technically it's the customers signature. I've asked a few people in the office and they aren't sure.
postalvet  
#14 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2019 3:12:31 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: valeriep Go to Quoted Post
How about if the customer signs the 3849 Form and authorizes the carrier to scan it and leave the package /certified mail in the mailbox? I have had one customer sign the 3849 and tell me that I can use it anytime in the future if there is a need. Is that allowed? Technically it's the customers signature. I've asked a few people in the office and they aren't sure.


what if the customer forgot they signed that 3849, then what?

ask yourself is doing something worth loosing your job for?

and what would management do to me?
Postal employee (retired) 38 yrs who helps even if some do not believe me! I was a Steward, officer & trouble maker. Just Sayin'
Tposters  
#15 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2019 3:22:55 PM(UTC)
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Shouldn’t be able to scan that 3849 more than once anyway, right?

This is right before I went on leave, but some carriers at my station reported no longer being able to scan the signed 3849 without also signing the scanner. Maybe confirms the idea that the signed 3849 only authorizes the attempt to redeliver the item, not leaving it without the customer present. Not helpful if your scanner dies, though.

MPE2009  
#16 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2019 3:45:08 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: valeriep Go to Quoted Post
How about if the customer signs the 3849 Form and authorizes the carrier to scan it and leave the package /certified mail in the mailbox? I have had one customer sign the 3849 and tell me that I can use it anytime in the future if there is a need. Is that allowed? Technically it's the customers signature. I've asked a few people in the office and they aren't sure.


NO! The customer can then point to the slip and the date and "gotcha."
LeroyToliver  
#17 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2019 3:54:52 PM(UTC)
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I can see someone at a business receiving this stuff just scribbling a name but a residential piece will more than likely have someone policing the signature confirmation. I remember a supervisor making a big stink about making customers print their names and sign them legibly, only to run into a trouble when running into a few customers that couldn't read or write and just scribbled what they could. At the end of the day, you don't know what that individuals capacity to write is and the signature they put down is what they put down.
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John Henry on 7/15/2019(UTC)
poorfamily  
#18 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2019 5:03:47 PM(UTC)
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My scanner still tells me to get a signature on a 3849. I have never had a customer sign on the scanner. And mismanagement has never required it here.
colty31  
#19 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2019 6:51:02 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Seadogg Go to Quoted Post
I believe this is common practice, one of the many idiotic things carriers do. It saves both carrier time and clerk time, and 95% of the time is appreciated by the customer. It's the sort of thing management loves for you to do, until they don't.


I agree.

We had a CCA get sent out with over 30 certifieds one day, all going to the same development regarding an upcoming construction project. He signed for each one himself and left them in the CBU mailboxes. Supervisor was very surprised when he returned to the office so quickly LOL
z165012  
#20 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2019 2:56:47 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: valeriep Go to Quoted Post
How about if the customer signs the 3849 Form and authorizes the carrier to scan it and leave the package /certified mail in the mailbox? I have had one customer sign the 3849 and tell me that I can use it anytime in the future if there is a need. Is that allowed? Technically it's the customers signature. I've asked a few people in the office and they aren't sure.


I met with the postmaster and carrier in my town to do this. I am a lead clerk in another town working 6 days a week, so the ability to actually get to the post office to sign for something is non-existent most weeks...they don't have a problem with leaving my packages - most of the time, guessing a sub was on my route a couple weeks ago when they weren't left, so I called the office (after signing 3849 they left in my box and it going back, and 3 days passing without the package), got it dropped the next day, but im in a smaller town, there are only 3 routes....
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