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usahoe18  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, August 13, 2019 2:47:19 PM(UTC)

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This is my question....Does an ODL carrier get sent back out to pull a drag off a non ODL carrier? This situation happened to me where a ODL carrier carried their route and drag in 8 and I was left out until about 530 at dispatch. My union is saying there is no grievance because management did everything they were suppose to do as in distributing the drags by contract. IT was the ODL carriers choice to carry in 8 and its no violation, its more of a carrier problem. I usually have some undertime where I can usually carry drags and my route in close to 8. This particular day I could not.
roger.d  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, August 13, 2019 4:57:14 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: usahoe18 Go to Quoted Post
This is my question....Does an ODL carrier get sent back out to pull a drag off a non ODL carrier? This situation happened to me where a ODL carrier carried their route and drag in 8 and I was left out until about 530 at dispatch. My union is saying there is no grievance because management did everything they were suppose to do as in distributing the drags by contract. IT was the ODL carriers choice to carry in 8 and its no violation, its more of a carrier problem. I usually have some undertime where I can usually carry drags and my route in close to 8. This particular day I could not.



Depends on how much OT you said you had.
Learn to discipline yourself, so someone else doesn't have to
colty31  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, August 13, 2019 6:23:33 PM(UTC)
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never heard assists called "drags"

I love all the different slang offices use
Seadogg  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, August 13, 2019 7:01:09 PM(UTC)
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It is my understanding that this issue has to do with hours worked, not what they distribute in the morning. In my office, if non-ODL is given anything extra off their assignment, all ODL stays to 12 hours, even if they need to stand around in the office. If they aren't able to give assistance to those 8-hr carriers who need it, all ODL stays to 10 hours. So you better believe if an ODL comes back in 8, they are getting sent back out.

Edited by user Tuesday, August 13, 2019 7:02:12 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

roger.d  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, August 13, 2019 7:31:02 PM(UTC)
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A non WA/OTDL may be required to work limited OT. Say 10 to 20 minutes.

Because it would require 10 to 20 minutes of travel time to do the 20 minutes of OT.
Learn to discipline yourself, so someone else doesn't have to
Razanur  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, August 13, 2019 7:45:08 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Seadogg Go to Quoted Post
It is my understanding that this issue has to do with hours worked, not what they distribute in the morning. In my office, if non-ODL is given anything extra off their assignment, all ODL stays to 12 hours, even if they need to stand around in the office. If they aren't able to give assistance to those 8-hr carriers who need it, all ODL stays to 10 hours. So you better believe if an ODL comes back in 8, they are getting sent back out.


If they're assigning off-assignment overtime, there better not be ODL carriers "standing around the office" until they hit 12 hours.
RodOrRob  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, August 13, 2019 7:49:28 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: roger.d Go to Quoted Post
A non WA/OTDL may be required to work limited OT. Say 10 to 20 minutes.

Because it would require 10 to 20 minutes of travel time to do the 20 minutes of OT.


It seems the OP is talking about a NON ODL working off his assignment.

Isn't that clause about travel time, due to receiving assistance when a non odl carrier may go over 8 on his own assignment?

It's in the Letter carrier paragraph...

Before requiring a non-ODL carrier to work overtime on a non-scheduled
day or off his/her own assignment, management must seek to use a
carrier from the ODL, even if the ODL carrier would be working penalty
overtime (Article 8.5.D).
The memo goes on to state that “the determination of whether management
must use a carrier from the ODL to provide auxiliary assistance
must be made on the basis of the rule of reason.” For example, management
is not required to use a carrier from the ODL when the travel
time would be excessive for the amount of assistance being given.

Edited by user Tuesday, August 13, 2019 7:50:29 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

roger.d  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, August 14, 2019 4:03:07 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: RodOrRob Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: roger.d Go to Quoted Post
A non WA/OTDL may be required to work limited OT. Say 10 to 20 minutes.

Because it would require 10 to 20 minutes of travel time to do the 20 minutes of OT.


It seems the OP is talking about a NON ODL working off his assignment.

Isn't that clause about travel time, due to receiving assistance when a non odl carrier may go over 8 on his own assignment?

It's in the Letter carrier paragraph...

Before requiring a non-ODL carrier to work overtime on a non-scheduled
day or off his/her own assignment, management must seek to use a
carrier from the ODL, even if the ODL carrier would be working penalty
overtime (Article 8.5.D).
The memo goes on to state that “the determination of whether management
must use a carrier from the ODL to provide auxiliary assistance
must be made on the basis of the rule of reason.” For example, management
is not required to use a carrier from the ODL when the travel
time would be excessive for the amount of assistance being given.


OP needs to clarify if the "drag" is on their route or another. I am reading it is their own "drag".

Learn to discipline yourself, so someone else doesn't have to
thanks 1 user thanked roger.d for this useful post.
RodOrRob on 8/14/2019(UTC)
usahoe18  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, August 14, 2019 6:46:18 AM(UTC)

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The drag was off another route. We had to split a route that day 5 ways because the other 2 carriers were mandated. Our union has an agreement with management that says the ODL carriers only carry to the truck, which is 530, or 1.5 hrs OT
Seadogg  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, August 14, 2019 6:55:08 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: usahoe18 Go to Quoted Post
The drag was off another route. We had to split a route that day 5 ways because the other 2 carriers were mandated. Our union has an agreement with management that says the ODL carriers only carry to the truck, which is 530, or 1.5 hrs OT


Your local sounds terrible - that's a seriously bad deal for non-odl. If I were you I would get involved and try to get a change in leadership. Even with that deal, the other carrier should absolutely have been sent back out to help you.
usahoe18  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, August 14, 2019 10:45:52 AM(UTC)

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I mean both the steward and president said there was no grievance. Management divided the drags up accordingly and as long as they do that, they cant send the odl back out....makes no sense. So because feathers were ruffled, the odl carriers except 1 get off the list....
RodOrRob  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, August 14, 2019 10:52:46 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: usahoe18 Go to Quoted Post
I mean both the steward and president said there was no grievance. Management divided the drags up accordingly and as long as they do that, they cant send the odl back out....makes no sense. So because feathers were ruffled, the odl carriers except 1 get off the list....


No, they can, and will send that ODL back out after you win that grievance. That WOO or meet the truck is tough to fight, but for an ODL to work his own rt and burn down the extra all in 8...he'll learn.

ODL must work max BEFORE non odl work.
Tell your steward to file a grievance, and if they don't, you will be contacting your NBA, they will get that local shaped up right quick


Issue Statements (Block 15 of PS Form 8190):

1. Did management violate Article 8.5 of the National Agreement when they forced Non-ODL and Work Assignment Letter Carriers to work off their assignments on [date], and if so, what should the remedy be?

Contentions:

1. Management violated Article 8.5 when they worked work assignment letter carrier(s) off their assignment(s) and Non-ODL letter carrier(s) overtime on and off their assignment when ODL letter carrier(s) were available to work.

2. Management should have scheduled/called in ODL letter carrier(s) on their non-scheduled day or utilized the ODL letter carrier(s) they already had working to perform the overtime work on the day in question.

3. Article 8.5.A gives letter carriers the right to sign the Overtime Desired List before each quarter begins. If a letter carrier chooses to sign the ODL he/she then has a choice as to whether to sign the regular ODL or the work assignment ODL. When a letter carrier signs the regular ODL, he/she is obligated to work up to 12 hours per day and 60 hours per week. When and on what assignment ODL letter carriers work is for management to decide.


4. However, Article 8.5.c.2 provides that when the need for overtime during the quarter arises, letter carriers on the ODL will be selected to perform the work. Therefore, an ODL letter carrier is available to work overtime on both regularly scheduled days and non-scheduled days. ODL letter carriers also have a right to work overtime before Non-ODL letter carriers are assigned to work overtime except in a few limited situations. None of those situations are present in this case.

5. Letter carriers who sign the work assignment ODL are obligated to work up to 12 hours on their own assignment on their regularly scheduled days. When it comes to working overtime off their assignment or on their non-scheduled days, work assignment ODL letter carriers are the same as Non-ODL letter carriers.

6. When Non-ODL letter carriers are forced to work overtime on and off their assignments and/or work assignment letter carriers are forced to work overtime off their assignments when ODL letter carriers are available to work, a contract violation occurs causing harm to each group of letter carriers. ODL letter carriers lose their bargained right to earn extra money and letter carriers forced to perform overtime work lose time outside of the workplace that they bargained to have.

7. The appropriate “make whole” remedy for this type of violation is overtime pay for the ODL Letter Carrier(s) that was/were deprived of their contractual right to work overtime and paid time off for the Non-ODL letter carrier(s) that was/were deprived of their contractual right to time away from the workplace. A long line of arbitration awards supports the Union’s view on remedy by several well-respected regional arbitrators going back more than 25 years.

8. Management violated Article 15, Sections 2 Step B (c) and 3.A of the National Agreement and Step 4 M-01517 by failing to comply with the past Step B Decisions included in the case file. Management in the [Station/Post Office] has a long history of violating Article 8. These egregious violations continue despite the fact that management has been instructed time after time to cease and desist these violations. For these reasons, the union requests an additional remedy to serve as an incentive for future compliance.


Remedy (Block 19 of PS Form 8190):

1. That management cease and desist violating Article 8, Section 5 of the National Agreement in the future.

2. That the following ODL letter carriers each be paid a lump sum payment equivalent to the amount of hours listed by each of their names at the appropriate overtime rate [list names]:

3. That the following work assignment letter carriers be paid 100% of their base pay/granted compensatory time off for the amount of hours listed by each of their names [list names]:

4. That the following NON ODL letter carriers be paid 100% of their base pay/granted compensatory time off in the amount of hours listed by each of their names [list names]:

5. That each Letter Carrier in the [Station/Post Office] be paid a lump of $100.00 to serve as an incentive for future compliance.

6. That all payments associated with this case be paid as soon as administratively possible or any other remedy the Step B Team or an Arbitrator deems appropriate.

Edited by user Wednesday, August 14, 2019 10:54:37 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Seadogg  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, August 14, 2019 11:27:28 AM(UTC)
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Also, management should assign this carrier 3 hr extra instead of 1.5, and instruct him to come back in 9.5. after all, he clearly showed he had 1.5 hr undertime.
thanks 1 user thanked Seadogg for this useful post.
RodOrRob on 8/14/2019(UTC)
usahoe18  
#14 Posted : Wednesday, August 14, 2019 1:43:45 PM(UTC)

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Dude, I don't have a clue. I don't get it. I asked PM if a cca can get sent back out and she said she was only guaranteed 4 hrs. That tells me, she can work the cca 4 hours, send her home, then split the other 4 hours between the rest of us.
usahoe18  
#15 Posted : Wednesday, August 14, 2019 1:45:14 PM(UTC)

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And when I was a cca, i use to get sent back out all the time. The reason behind it was because i was a cca.
roger.d  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, August 14, 2019 2:17:30 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: RodOrRob Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: usahoe18 Go to Quoted Post
I mean both the steward and president said there was no grievance. Management divided the drags up accordingly and as long as they do that, they cant send the odl back out....makes no sense. So because feathers were ruffled, the odl carriers except 1 get off the list....


No, they can, and will send that ODL back out after you win that grievance. That WOO or meet the truck is tough to fight, but for an ODL to work his own rt and burn down the extra all in 8...he'll learn.

ODL must work max BEFORE non odl work.
Tell your steward to file a grievance, and if they don't, you will be contacting your NBA, they will get that local shaped up right quick


Issue Statements (Block 15 of PS Form 8190):

1. Did management violate Article 8.5 of the National Agreement when they forced Non-ODL and Work Assignment Letter Carriers to work off their assignments on [date], and if so, what should the remedy be?

Contentions:

1. Management violated Article 8.5 when they worked work assignment letter carrier(s) off their assignment(s) and Non-ODL letter carrier(s) overtime on and off their assignment when ODL letter carrier(s) were available to work.

2. Management should have scheduled/called in ODL letter carrier(s) on their non-scheduled day or utilized the ODL letter carrier(s) they already had working to perform the overtime work on the day in question.

3. Article 8.5.A gives letter carriers the right to sign the Overtime Desired List before each quarter begins. If a letter carrier chooses to sign the ODL he/she then has a choice as to whether to sign the regular ODL or the work assignment ODL. When a letter carrier signs the regular ODL, he/she is obligated to work up to 12 hours per day and 60 hours per week. When and on what assignment ODL letter carriers work is for management to decide.


4. However, Article 8.5.c.2 provides that when the need for overtime during the quarter arises, letter carriers on the ODL will be selected to perform the work. Therefore, an ODL letter carrier is available to work overtime on both regularly scheduled days and non-scheduled days. ODL letter carriers also have a right to work overtime before Non-ODL letter carriers are assigned to work overtime except in a few limited situations. None of those situations are present in this case.

5. Letter carriers who sign the work assignment ODL are obligated to work up to 12 hours on their own assignment on their regularly scheduled days. When it comes to working overtime off their assignment or on their non-scheduled days, work assignment ODL letter carriers are the same as Non-ODL letter carriers.

6. When Non-ODL letter carriers are forced to work overtime on and off their assignments and/or work assignment letter carriers are forced to work overtime off their assignments when ODL letter carriers are available to work, a contract violation occurs causing harm to each group of letter carriers. ODL letter carriers lose their bargained right to earn extra money and letter carriers forced to perform overtime work lose time outside of the workplace that they bargained to have.

7. The appropriate “make whole” remedy for this type of violation is overtime pay for the ODL Letter Carrier(s) that was/were deprived of their contractual right to work overtime and paid time off for the Non-ODL letter carrier(s) that was/were deprived of their contractual right to time away from the workplace. A long line of arbitration awards supports the Union’s view on remedy by several well-respected regional arbitrators going back more than 25 years.

8. Management violated Article 15, Sections 2 Step B (c) and 3.A of the National Agreement and Step 4 M-01517 by failing to comply with the past Step B Decisions included in the case file. Management in the [Station/Post Office] has a long history of violating Article 8. These egregious violations continue despite the fact that management has been instructed time after time to cease and desist these violations. For these reasons, the union requests an additional remedy to serve as an incentive for future compliance.


Remedy (Block 19 of PS Form 8190):

1. That management cease and desist violating Article 8, Section 5 of the National Agreement in the future.

2. That the following ODL letter carriers each be paid a lump sum payment equivalent to the amount of hours listed by each of their names at the appropriate overtime rate [list names]:

3. That the following work assignment letter carriers be paid 100% of their base pay/granted compensatory time off for the amount of hours listed by each of their names [list names]:

4. That the following NON ODL letter carriers be paid 100% of their base pay/granted compensatory time off in the amount of hours listed by each of their names [list names]:

5. That each Letter Carrier in the [Station/Post Office] be paid a lump of $100.00 to serve as an incentive for future compliance.

6. That all payments associated with this case be paid as soon as administratively possible or any other remedy the Step B Team or an Arbitrator deems appropriate.


I would not leave item #6 open ended like this.

Change it to " with in 2 pay periods. If not complied with, an additional payment of $50 per pay period will be paid"

Learn to discipline yourself, so someone else doesn't have to
poorfamily  
#17 Posted : Wednesday, August 14, 2019 2:50:50 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: usahoe18 Go to Quoted Post
Dude, I don't have a clue. I don't get it. I asked PM if a cca can get sent back out and she said she was only guaranteed 4 hrs. That tells me, she can work the cca 4 hours, send her home, then split the other 4 hours between the rest of us.


Nope, nope, nope. Depending on office size CCAs are guaranteed 4 hours, not limited to 4 hours. Real big difference. Your PM is either an idiot or a liar. Even money either way. Read Article 8 and learn the truth.
Razanur  
#18 Posted : Wednesday, August 14, 2019 4:38:30 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: poorfamily Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: usahoe18 Go to Quoted Post
Dude, I don't have a clue. I don't get it. I asked PM if a cca can get sent back out and she said she was only guaranteed 4 hrs. That tells me, she can work the cca 4 hours, send her home, then split the other 4 hours between the rest of us.


Nope, nope, nope. Depending on office size CCAs are guaranteed 4 hours, not limited to 4 hours. Real big difference. Your PM is either an idiot or a liar. Even money either way. Read Article 8 and learn the truth.


CCAs are only required to be maximized before mandating overtime under the provisions of the Letter Carrier Paragraph (IE, own-assignment OT). There is no requirement that CCAs be maximized before mandating off-assignment OT.
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