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Burnerr  
#1 Posted : Monday, October 7, 2019 9:56:53 AM(UTC)
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Any reason for there being no CI career field on the DIA website? I feel that makes it difficult for people interested in the career field to gather info about it..
someoldguy  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, October 9, 2019 12:17:07 PM(UTC)
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I guess they designed that new web page with the nice 3x3 grid of career fields and had to leave something out to preserve the Feng Shui.

I had to check it out for myself, sure enough there's no CI. But it does say the next hiring event will be announced in Feb 2020.
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Burnerr  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, October 9, 2019 12:41:00 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: someoldguy Go to Quoted Post
I guess they designed that new web page with the nice 3x3 grid of career fields and had to leave something out to preserve the Feng Shui.

I had to check it out for myself, sure enough there's no CI. But it does say the next hiring event will be announced in Feb 2020.


Interestingly enough, CI was also left out at the most recent hiring event...I wonder if that'll become a re-occurring trend
someoldguy  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, October 9, 2019 1:38:12 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Burnerr Go to Quoted Post
Interestingly enough, CI was also left out at the most recent hiring event...I wonder if that'll become a re-occurring trend
The career fields for any given hiring event do vary somewhat... Analysis and Mission Management always seem to be included, while the rest are a bit of a mixed bag.

I was wondering if DIA would be giving up some of its CI responsibilities to the new Defense Security & Counterintelligence Agency (or is it Counterintelligence & Security), the result of the combination of DSS and the background investigation arm of OPM. But I have not seen anything to this effect.

Yes, it is Defense Counterintelligence & Security Agency

Edited by user Wednesday, October 9, 2019 1:49:13 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Added link to DCSA web site

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Burnerr  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, October 9, 2019 3:02:43 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: someoldguy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Burnerr Go to Quoted Post
Interestingly enough, CI was also left out at the most recent hiring event...I wonder if that'll become a re-occurring trend
The career fields for any given hiring event do vary somewhat... Analysis and Mission Management always seem to be included, while the rest are a bit of a mixed bag.

I was wondering if DIA would be giving up some of its CI responsibilities to the new Defense Security & Counterintelligence Agency (or is it Counterintelligence & Security), the result of the combination of DSS and the background investigation arm of OPM. But I have not seen anything to this effect.

Yes, it is Defense Counterintelligence & Security Agency


Comparatively, I do have some questions on how the two may overlap. Just PM'd you
buckaneers  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, October 9, 2019 7:57:59 PM(UTC)
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It's interesting, especially since CI is still listed as a specialty within the Analysis Career Field and a still active 2014 article publicly acknowledged that DIA carried out all five functions of CI:

"Today, the Defense Intelligence Agency serves as the functional manager for the Department of Defense’s counterintelligence enterprise to identify and neutralize foreign intelligence threats. DIA conducts internal investigative activities designed to identify, disrupt and defeat intelligence threats to DIA; defensive activities to increase the counterintelligence posture of DIA; and counterintelligence collection in cyberspace and offensive operations. DIA also performs strategic counterintelligence analysis to synchronize and synthesize information collected from all threat streams in order to enable the enterprise to conduct more comprehensive CI activities."

My guess is that some GS15 was feeling spooky/important and successfully argued against listing it, although clandestine HUMINT is still there? *shrugs*

I'm not sure that DCSA gobbled up DIA's CI elements or any of the other DoD CI elements, from my understanding it's still pretty contractor/personnel clearance-focused despite the name.

Edited by user Wednesday, October 9, 2019 7:59:22 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Burnerr  
#7 Posted : Thursday, October 10, 2019 4:08:59 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: buckaneers Go to Quoted Post
It's interesting, especially since CI is still listed as a specialty within the Analysis Career Field and a still active 2014 article publicly acknowledged that DIA carried out all five functions of CI:

"Today, the Defense Intelligence Agency serves as the functional manager for the Department of Defense’s counterintelligence enterprise to identify and neutralize foreign intelligence threats. DIA conducts internal investigative activities designed to identify, disrupt and defeat intelligence threats to DIA; defensive activities to increase the counterintelligence posture of DIA; and counterintelligence collection in cyberspace and offensive operations. DIA also performs strategic counterintelligence analysis to synchronize and synthesize information collected from all threat streams in order to enable the enterprise to conduct more comprehensive CI activities."

My guess is that some GS15 was feeling spooky/important and successfully argued against listing it, although clandestine HUMINT is still there? *shrugs*

I'm not sure that DCSA gobbled up DIA's CI elements or any of the other DoD CI elements, from my understanding it's still pretty contractor/personnel clearance-focused despite the name.


My initial thought also was that somebody thought it would be a good idea to be more "hush hush" about the career field given it's discretionary nature, but the fact that DCS has it's own section under HUMINT would go against that idea. Perhaps they're still developing the career field after the various phases it has been through (i.e. CIFA, DCHC)
Burnerr  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, October 16, 2019 8:44:27 AM(UTC)
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A noteworthy addition: the DIA jobs site just posted an announcement for CI Officer at the GG-12 grade. The description includes, "Applicants should be aware that this position has been identified as one that will be transferring permanently out of DIA, to the Defense Security Service (DSS) possibly as soon as FY2020." The theory that CI jobs may be moving to the DSS is looking to be more of a reality.

Edited by user Wednesday, October 16, 2019 9:12:54 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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someoldguy on 10/16/2019(UTC)
velcroTech  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, October 16, 2019 10:14:07 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Burnerr Go to Quoted Post
A noteworthy addition: the DIA jobs site just posted an announcement for CI Officer at the GG-12 grade. The description includes, "Applicants should be aware that this position has been identified as one that will be transferring permanently out of DIA, to the Defense Security Service (DSS) possibly as soon as FY2020." The theory that CI jobs may be moving to the DSS is looking to be more of a reality.


"What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet." - Billy S.
someoldguy  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, October 16, 2019 12:12:28 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Burnerr Go to Quoted Post
A noteworthy addition: the DIA jobs site just posted an announcement for CI Officer at the GG-12 grade. The description includes, "Applicants should be aware that this position has been identified as one that will be transferring permanently out of DIA, to the Defense Security Service (DSS) possibly as soon as FY2020." The theory that CI jobs may be moving to the DSS is looking to be more of a reality.
AHA!!! I was RIGHT!!! You saw it here first.

Note that as of 1 Oct there is no more DSS, it has been folded into the new Defense Counterintelligence and Security Agency (DSCA). And just to be clear, I had absolutely no inside info on this. Further, as I gaze into my crystal ball, I do not see this happening in FY20... or 21. I'd say not in 22 either but my crystal ball is only calibrated to mid-2021.

Also, I doubt that 100% of the CI organization will move from DIA to DCSA. But I suspect that it will be a fairly significant portion that moves. I'll have to go examine that job posting for any further clues.

Edited by user Wednesday, October 16, 2019 12:23:37 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Incorporating comments from fifth level review

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Burnerr  
#11 Posted : Sunday, November 10, 2019 11:05:46 AM(UTC)
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A fun update that may not be news to anyone, but I found relevant to the discussion so I'm posting anyway:

The fantastic Wayback Machine provides some insight on the recent history of the CI career field and it's drifting away from the DIA website. As of January 5th, 2018, CI had its own section under the Mission Area's dropdown of the DIA website: https://web.archive.org/...reas/Counterintelligence

By or around October 7th 2018, the DIA website meshed Analysis and CI together, creating the CI and Transnational Analysis career specialty: https://web.archive.org/...and-counterintelligence/

And today, as mentioned previously, we only have CI and Transnational appearing under the "Analysis" career field category, with no mention of CI in the actual career field, but rather only the career specialty.

If anyone finds out anything new, feel free to add on!

Edited by user Monday, November 11, 2019 6:18:20 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

someoldguy  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, January 22, 2020 12:50:52 PM(UTC)
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I almost hate to breathe any life into this dying forum but I see there is an announcement for a CI "Hiring Event." It is for the CI "Career Field" but the only "Career Specialty mentioned is Cover Support Officer.

And still no mention of the CI Career Field on the dia.mil web site.

So if you happen to be down Huntsville way, maybe you can swing an invite.
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Burnerr on 1/22/2020(UTC)
nofacenoname  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, January 22, 2020 4:27:44 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: someoldguy Go to Quoted Post
I almost hate to breathe any life into this dying forum but I see there is an announcement for a CI "Hiring Event." It is for the CI "Career Field" but the only "Career Specialty mentioned is Cover Support Officer.

And still no mention of the CI Career Field on the dia.mil web site.

So if you happen to be down Huntsville way, maybe you can swing an invite.


It looks like CI Agent is listed but it's more general. From my experience, CI Agent's can wear a multitude of hats and are found in a lot of different agencies. I believe DCSA is taking over the bulk of the domestic CI Agent responsibilities but I'm curious if DIA will still maintain agents for overseas CI operations or if they'll just use HUMINT folks.

To me, Cover Support is really hush hush at DIA at least from an outsiders perspective. There's basically no information about the actual career specialty and the job description is extremely vague. Most likely for good reason though.
someoldguy  
#14 Posted : Saturday, January 25, 2020 6:02:23 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nofacenoname Go to Quoted Post
It looks like CI Agent is listed but it's more general.
You are correct! I don't know if I missed it or if they changed it.

Also I do not see that caveat about positions possibly moving to DCSA like was included in an earlier posting.

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Burnerr  
#15 Posted : Saturday, January 25, 2020 7:27:07 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: someoldguy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: nofacenoname Go to Quoted Post
It looks like CI Agent is listed but it's more general.
You are correct! I don't know if I missed it or if they changed it.

Also I do not see that caveat about positions possibly moving to DCSA like was included in an earlier posting.



I noticed that also. I think it's interesting that CI is getting it's own hiring event when they claim to be hosting another hiring event, presumably for all career fields, in February.
nofacenoname  
#16 Posted : Monday, January 27, 2020 5:11:12 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Burnerr Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: someoldguy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: nofacenoname Go to Quoted Post
It looks like CI Agent is listed but it's more general.
You are correct! I don't know if I missed it or if they changed it.

Also I do not see that caveat about positions possibly moving to DCSA like was included in an earlier posting.



I noticed that also. I think it's interesting that CI is getting it's own hiring event when they claim to be hosting another hiring event, presumably for all career fields, in February.


I think it's location based. The other hiring events were worldwide and this one is specifically for Huntsville.
buckaneers  
#17 Posted : Sunday, February 2, 2020 8:42:27 AM(UTC)
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I know it sounds cool, but don't do it man. I interviewed for both analysis and CI career fields years back. Started off in the CI/Transnational specialty as an Analyst doing fun things and eventually went over to the CI Agent specialty because I thought it would be even more fun. Boy was I wrong. For every 1 person in that specialty doing cool things there are about a metric ton of others doing CI admin or mundane protective tasks that can be done by security people. I have been trying to get back into analysis ever since where, ironically, I felt like I did more actual CI work. If you want to bust spies for a living, join a military CI component or the FBI since they have the domestic charter.

Edited by user Sunday, February 2, 2020 8:47:30 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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someoldguy on 2/2/2020(UTC)
buckaneers  
#18 Posted : Sunday, February 2, 2020 9:06:14 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nofacenoname Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: someoldguy Go to Quoted Post
I almost hate to breathe any life into this dying forum but I see there is an announcement for a CI "Hiring Event." It is for the CI "Career Field" but the only "Career Specialty mentioned is Cover Support Officer.

And still no mention of the CI Career Field on the dia.mil web site.

So if you happen to be down Huntsville way, maybe you can swing an invite.


It looks like CI Agent is listed but it's more general. From my experience, CI Agent's can wear a multitude of hats and are found in a lot of different agencies. I believe DCSA is taking over the bulk of the domestic CI Agent responsibilities but I'm curious if DIA will still maintain agents for overseas CI operations or if they'll just use HUMINT folks.


I don't know the answer to this but will say CI and HUMINT are not interchangeable (at least, not supposed to be). There is some tactical overlap, but really they aren't even the same INT. One protects against or does things against foreign intel adversaries while the other gathers a wide array of information to satisfy a wide array of requirements.

Edited by user Sunday, February 2, 2020 9:12:34 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

someoldguy  
#19 Posted : Sunday, February 2, 2020 3:23:26 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: buckaneers Go to Quoted Post
I know it sounds cool, but don't do it man. I interviewed for both analysis and CI career fields years back. Started off in the CI/Transnational specialty as an Analyst doing fun things and eventually went over to the CI Agent specialty because I thought it would be even more fun. Boy was I wrong. For every 1 person in that specialty doing cool things there are about a metric ton of others doing CI admin or mundane protective tasks that can be done by security people. I have been trying to get back into analysis ever since where, ironically, I felt like I did more actual CI work. If you want to bust spies for a living, join a military CI component or the FBI since they have the domestic charter.
Wow I did not expect to hear that, although I wondered what all those CI people are supposed to be doing.

Do you know if your CI training for DIA would be accepted by another DoD element? If you applied for, say, Army CI, would they send you to their CI school where you would have to start all over again?

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buckaneers  
#20 Posted : Sunday, February 2, 2020 9:23:18 PM(UTC)
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I doubt it. Let's put it this way - tons of federal agencies more or less have their internal CI/security workforce (there was a thread about this on the IRS forum for example) who do the front end day to day grinding/grunt work because the FBI and military CI orgs don't have the people to watch over every single agency on top of all the other stuff they have to do. "Mall cop" is a bit of an exaggeration, but they don't exactly need to be able to do "high level" stuff. Imagine interviewing people for reporting things and putting that information into a database where it may or may not be used again. Or briefing/educating people or doing surveys. They can't do much beyond those things because that would encroach on military or FBI's jurisdiction. Once things get serious after a finding (the Montes case outlined by Scott in his book True Believer goes over this), FBI and the military orgs do the heavy lifting.

To be sure, this isn't how every position is, but I would say the overwhelming majority of them. The "fun" stuff is very few and far between and hyper-competitive, for good reason.

As an analyst though, you are needed for all kinds of stuff and have opportunities for travel, exchanges, etc. because the community relies on your expertise to make the neat stuff happen at the national level. So I'll just go back to analysis. Don't drink the koolaid folks.

Edited by user Sunday, February 2, 2020 10:19:42 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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