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specialk  
#1 Posted : Saturday, October 12, 2019 5:03:24 AM(UTC)
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Is it a rule or different for every station that if you call in the day before a holiday that you dont receive holiday pay? is there truth to this? I had to call in today because my youngest child is sick and my other children have a fall festival at their school. I stayed home to be with the youngest while my wife goes to the festival with my other children. I start vacation on monday. Will I still receive holiday pay?
MPE2009  
#2 Posted : Saturday, October 12, 2019 5:26:57 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: specialk Go to Quoted Post
Is it a rule or different for every station that if you call in the day before a holiday that you dont receive holiday pay? is there truth to this? I had to call in today because my youngest child is sick and my other children have a fall festival at their school. I stayed home to be with the youngest while my wife goes to the festival with my other children. I start vacation on monday. Will I still receive holiday pay?


Pull up the ELM, JCIM and clerk contract and read it. If you don't understand after reading it, come ask again. Although if you're a carrier, ELM, JCAM and NALC agreement.
Razanur  
#3 Posted : Saturday, October 12, 2019 5:37:18 AM(UTC)
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I can only speak for city carriers, though I expect the other crafts to be similar:

If you are in a pay status the last hour of your scheduled day before the holiday, or the first hour of your scheduled day after, you will receive holiday pay. Both Sick Leave and Annual Leave put you in a pay status.

The one caveat is that if you are scheduled to work on the holiday itself (or your designated holiday, if the holiday falls on your SDO) and do not work, you will not receive holiday pay.

So unless Monday is your SDO, you should receive holiday pay.
Hannah Blecter  
#4 Posted : Saturday, October 12, 2019 7:32:54 AM(UTC)
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I don't want you to think I am the expert on this. However, I don't know if the comment about not getting holiday leave pay if you don't work if scheduled on your holiday or day off is accurate. My understanding on the language about that was if you call in sick on your day off (if it falls on the holiday) or your scheduled holiday is that you will not be granted sick leave. I did not think it affected your holiday leave pay.

It is correct that you must be in pay status on the last hour of your SCHEDULED day before the holiday or the first hour of your first SCHEDULED day after the holiday. Not to get in the weeds, but if someone is on long-term LWOP they cannot have a day of paid leave input the day before or after the holiday just to get the holiday pay.

As long as you fulfill the requirement on either side of the holiday you would get holiday leave pay even if mgmt put you in for AWOL or LWOP on one side of it. So if you ever don't get the holiday leave pay to which you are entitled, that should be a grievance. And not being granted sick leave probably is a grievance, also.

Watch those managers. Many are dishonest and they have control over your pay. Many don't bat an eye when stealing from you.

If you think there is going to be an issue, hopefully you could also add FMLA to your leave.
Razanur  
#5 Posted : Saturday, October 12, 2019 11:47:04 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Hannah Blecter Go to Quoted Post
I don't want you to think I am the expert on this. However, I don't know if the comment about not getting holiday leave pay if you don't work if scheduled on your holiday or day off is accurate. My understanding on the language about that was if you call in sick on your day off (if it falls on the holiday) or your scheduled holiday is that you will not be granted sick leave. I did not think it affected your holiday leave pay.

It is correct that you must be in pay status on the last hour of your SCHEDULED day before the holiday or the first hour of your first SCHEDULED day after the holiday. Not to get in the weeds, but if someone is on long-term LWOP they cannot have a day of paid leave input the day before or after the holiday just to get the holiday pay.

As long as you fulfill the requirement on either side of the holiday you would get holiday leave pay even if mgmt put you in for AWOL or LWOP on one side of it. So if you ever don't get the holiday leave pay to which you are entitled, that should be a grievance. And not being granted sick leave probably is a grievance, also.

Watch those managers. Many are dishonest and they have control over your pay. Many don't bat an eye when stealing from you.

If you think there is going to be an issue, hopefully you could also add FMLA to your leave.


This comes from Article 11.6.C of the NALC contract:

"An employee scheduled to work on a holiday who does not work shall not receive holiday pay, unless such absence is based on an extreme emergency situation and is excused by the Employer."

Again that only applies to working on the actual holiday (or your designated holiday). So Monday, in case, or Saturday if Monday is your SDO.
specialk  
#6 Posted : Saturday, October 12, 2019 11:51:25 AM(UTC)
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my SDO is friday/sat. I have the weekend off next week. But I am also on vacation beginning monday
Hannah Blecter  
#7 Posted : Saturday, October 12, 2019 12:24:54 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: specialk Go to Quoted Post
my SDO is friday/sat. I have the weekend off next week. But I am also on vacation beginning monday


As long as you are not on lwop Thursday end of tour or Tuesday beginning of tour you get holiday leave pay. Your work hours on Thursday and (I assume) annual on Tuesday are both paid hours. So you covered both of your qualifications to get paid holiday leave pay for Monday.

p.s. only one qualification was necessary to be met to get holiday leave pay

Edited by user Saturday, October 12, 2019 12:34:36 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Hannah Blecter  
#8 Posted : Saturday, October 12, 2019 12:33:15 PM(UTC)
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Razanur, I am not a contract person. I have a question about this.

"An employee scheduled to work on a holiday who does not work shall not receive holiday pay, unless such absence is based on an extreme emergency situation and is excused by the Employer."

I have read this before, whether in contract or manual (most of my reading has been manuals--most of my career was secretary or PM).

I understood this to mean that if you are scheduled to work the holiday and you don't that you don't get HOLIDAY PAY (pay for working). However, I always wondered why you would get holiday pay even in an emergency when you don't work the hours. I would understand if it was an emergency like a fire, not enough work due to truck not arriving, whatever. I don't know why you should get paid if it was a personal emergency.

Now, all that said, I did not think the quote above had anything to do with HOLIDAY LEAVE PAY. Even if you are schedule to work on the holiday and something prevents you working, why would you not get the holiday leave pay that has nothing to do with whether or not you were scheduled for your holiday or not?

If I misunderstand this, I truly want this explained to me.

Basically, I am saying holiday pay is not holiday leave pay.
Hannah Blecter  
#9 Posted : Saturday, October 12, 2019 12:43:41 PM(UTC)
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Maybe it would be better if everyone specified holiday WORK pay and holiday LEAVE pay when questioning or responding.

As far as this question from the OP:

"Is it a rule or different for every station that if you call in the day before a holiday that you dont receive holiday pay?"

No if you mean holiday leave pay. That is bullcrap unless you calling in causes you to not be in pay status both before AND after the holiday.

But, if the day before a holiday is YOUR holiday and you call in when schedule to work your holiday you would not get holiday WORK pay, but not working your holiday would not affect your holiday LEAVE pay.
thanks 1 user thanked Hannah Blecter for this useful post.
RodOrRob on 10/12/2019(UTC)
Razanur  
#10 Posted : Saturday, October 12, 2019 6:14:59 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Hannah Blecter Go to Quoted Post
Razanur, I am not a contract person. I have a question about this.

"An employee scheduled to work on a holiday who does not work shall not receive holiday pay, unless such absence is based on an extreme emergency situation and is excused by the Employer."

I have read this before, whether in contract or manual (most of my reading has been manuals--most of my career was secretary or PM).

I understood this to mean that if you are scheduled to work the holiday and you don't that you don't get HOLIDAY PAY (pay for working). However, I always wondered why you would get holiday pay even in an emergency when you don't work the hours. I would understand if it was an emergency like a fire, not enough work due to truck not arriving, whatever. I don't know why you should get paid if it was a personal emergency.

Now, all that said, I did not think the quote above had anything to do with HOLIDAY LEAVE PAY. Even if you are schedule to work on the holiday and something prevents you working, why would you not get the holiday leave pay that has nothing to do with whether or not you were scheduled for your holiday or not?

If I misunderstand this, I truly want this explained to me.

Basically, I am saying holiday pay is not holiday leave pay.


At least as far as the JCAM goes, Holiday Pay is Holiday Leave, not Holiday Worked Pay. I imagine the other handbooks and manuals are the same.
postalvet  
#11 Posted : Saturday, October 12, 2019 6:41:15 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: specialk Go to Quoted Post
Is it a rule or different for every station that if you call in the day before a holiday that you dont receive holiday pay? is there truth to this? I had to call in today because my youngest child is sick and my other children have a fall festival at their school. I stayed home to be with the youngest while my wife goes to the festival with my other children. I start vacation on monday. Will I still receive holiday pay?


how long have you worked for the post office?

can this be fmla?
Postal employee (retired) 38 yrs who helps even if some do not believe me! I was a Steward, officer & trouble maker. Just Sayin'
Hannah Blecter  
#12 Posted : Saturday, October 12, 2019 6:46:33 PM(UTC)
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Razanur, thanks for that info. That leads me to a question. Based on these things:

"At least as far as the JCAM goes, Holiday Pay is Holiday Leave, not Holiday Worked Pay. I imagine the other handbooks and manuals are the same."

This comes from Article 11.6.C of the NALC contract:

"An employee scheduled to work on a holiday who does not work shall not receive holiday pay, unless such absence is based on an extreme emergency situation and is excused by the Employer."

If this contract reference means that an employee scheduled to work on a holiday but does not work will not get holiday leave, does that mean there is a financial penalty of possibly $250 for the carrier scheduled because he won't get paid his holiday leave?

If so, that would be another incentive to NOT volunteer to work your holiday. The biggest incentive is that you only get paid straight time when you do work it. If you were to add that you would be risking your holiday leave (if you did not work for some reason), I would think anyone knowing this would never volunteer. Why risk holiday leave on a double or nothing by volunteering to work your holiday?

Personally, I don't think this is the explanation. But, again, I sure would like to know.
Razanur  
#13 Posted : Saturday, October 12, 2019 6:58:51 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Hannah Blecter Go to Quoted Post
Razanur, thanks for that info. That leads me to a question. Based on these things:

"At least as far as the JCAM goes, Holiday Pay is Holiday Leave, not Holiday Worked Pay. I imagine the other handbooks and manuals are the same."

This comes from Article 11.6.C of the NALC contract:

"An employee scheduled to work on a holiday who does not work shall not receive holiday pay, unless such absence is based on an extreme emergency situation and is excused by the Employer."

If this contract reference means that an employee scheduled to work on a holiday but does not work will not get holiday leave, does that mean there is a financial penalty of possibly $250 for the carrier scheduled because he won't get paid his holiday leave?

If so, that would be another incentive to NOT volunteer to work your holiday. The biggest incentive is that you only get paid straight time when you do work it. If you were to add that you would be risking your holiday leave (if you did not work for some reason), I would think anyone knowing this would never volunteer. Why risk holiday leave on a double or nothing by volunteering to work your holiday?

Personally, I don't think this is the explanation. But, again, I sure would like to know.


Yeah, that's basically correct. Although I wouldn't call it double or nothing, per se, since your Holiday Worked Pay will still be replaced by Sick Leave (assuming you used Sick Leave to cover your absence).
Hannah Blecter  
#14 Posted : Saturday, October 12, 2019 7:28:41 PM(UTC)
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Actually, I thought the idea between not getting pay if you did not work was that if you were scheduled for the holiday that you could not call in sick or go home sick and use leave. And I thought that was fair and reasonable. Also, you have to code the hours on the holiday as holiday work pay or else it would be an overtime situation and you cannot get overtime sick leave. I never viewed this situation as a reason not to get paid holiday leave pay. And I don't think there is a way to use sick leave to cover your inability to work your holiday.
RodOrRob  
#15 Posted : Sunday, October 13, 2019 4:10:07 AM(UTC)
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The reason for the 1 hour prior/1 hour after pay status to be paid for the holiday...is if someone is out on extended LWOP they need to use A/L or S/L for

that 1 hour to receive the 8 hours of Holiday pay. I assume this would apply to CCA'S now as well, for their 6 hour holidays.

It is always misconstrued by management (imagine that!) to trick the employee into making sure they don't call in sick.

If you call in sick before or after the holiday, and you have 1 hour of S/L (or A/L) balance to use, you WILL be paid for the actual holiday.

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