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MPE2009  
#21 Posted : Friday, January 3, 2020 1:09:01 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Seadogg Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: MPE2009 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Mrgrimm312 Go to Quoted Post
Hey MPE, if we go off your logic of thinking we would never file any grievances.

Think about our contractual rights. We have a right to be on the 8 hour list to limit overtime and we have a contractual right to be on the 12 or 10 ODL...

So when management willingly forces 8 hour personal to work overtime and knowing the 12 ODL people don’t have enough work to keep them diligently working as our contract said then why is there even an option to be on the 8 hour list???

So if you don’t fight management to manage according to contract then ground is lost and they will continue to violate persons not wanting overtime.

So your argument is kind of dumb. Also your basically saying that the 8 hour people don’t matter and should t be fought for. Which they all are paying union members. So it is of value to the union to push these grievances through other wise they can simply choose to get out of the union and that revenue over a long haul is worth a lot more to the union.

Case and point.


Rather stupid reply for you to make, since I offered no argument. I suggested that there may have been a grievance settlement or even arbitration in that office, which pertains to this particular issue. Therefore the union may have concluded that they will lose this grievance, esp if they have nothing new to fight it with and are not interested in losing it again. Reading is fundamental, try it. What research have you done on this issue? What level of participation do you offer the union? Do you just sit back and whine because "THEY" don't do enough for you or do you actively take part in the union and contribute?


I agree with you to a point, but think of this: many people on the eight hour list have family or other obligations that make it more difficult to work overtime. They are much less likely to have the time to devote to the union, even if they feel positive about it in general. There is a natural selection bias in union leadership that results in underrepresentation of eight-hour employees. That said, all the more reason for those of us who can, to step up.


You are correct, not all have the time at this moment. Most have time sometime during their career. Most sit back and whine at the steward to fix their complaints and whine some more when the steward is unable to do their biddings. Most also don't take the time to read the contract, JCAM and all of those MOU or to read anything else of use. Most feel incredibly entitled without having done one thing to earn that entitlement.
Mrgrimm312  
#22 Posted : Friday, January 3, 2020 6:43:20 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: MPE2009 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Mrgrimm312 Go to Quoted Post
Hey MPE, if we go off your logic of thinking we would never file any grievances.

Think about our contractual rights. We have a right to be on the 8 hour list to limit overtime and we have a contractual right to be on the 12 or 10 ODL...

So when management willingly forces 8 hour personal to work overtime and knowing the 12 ODL people don’t have enough work to keep them diligently working as our contract said then why is there even an option to be on the 8 hour list???

So if you don’t fight management to manage according to contract then ground is lost and they will continue to violate persons not wanting overtime.

So your argument is kind of dumb. Also your basically saying that the 8 hour people don’t matter and should t be fought for. Which they all are paying union members. So it is of value to the union to push these grievances through other wise they can simply choose to get out of the union and that revenue over a long haul is worth a lot more to the union.

Case and point.


Rather stupid reply for you to make, since I offered no argument. I suggested that there may have been a grievance settlement or even arbitration in that office, which pertains to this particular issue. Therefore the union may have concluded that they will lose this grievance, esp if they have nothing new to fight it with and are not interested in losing it again. Reading is fundamental, try it. What research have you done on this issue? What level of participation do you offer the union? Do you just sit back and whine because "THEY" don't do enough for you or do you actively take part in the union and contribute?


Yes I was a steward for sometime. You would be right that many do not do their research and do whine and cry and feel entitled. But on the other hand if no one ever brings up an issue to a steward or raises an issue about something that they feel could be some sort of an issue then how does a steward ever find out or investigate the issue. The paying union members no matter what should be resprisented in one way or another. Why does it really matter if they come to a steward and raise an issue that very well may be not a grievance. Thats all the steward would have to explain

So yes under our local contract and the elm it clearly states that we as employees once clocked in that we are to diligently work. Under article 3 D it states management is to run the company efficiently.

Heres the issue i have. Management shouldnt be circumventing overtime violations by simply calling a forced 12 hour work day to screw over the 8 hour people to work off their assignments and then have the ODL and CCA sit there litteraly eating pizza for over 2 hours. Its a complete waste of company money and resources. Also creates an enviroment that will become hostile as 8 hour carriers begin to question why they are working over while others work some and sit around..

This is actually coming from a 12 hour ODL person. Thats me and i still think its BS. I am to be working not getting paid 64$ an hour to sit there. Am i the only one trying to look out for the future of the post office?

Bottom line if there is 5 hours of splits given to 8 hour people and then there is a total of 8 hours worth of sitting around by the ODL and CCA that is clearly not in the best interest of anyone. Company, CCA, ODL, Union, 8 hour, OWA.

SO yes I want to see what an unbiased person would say how management shouldnt be able to circumvent overtime violations by doing BS like this.
Seadogg  
#23 Posted : Friday, January 3, 2020 7:01:56 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Mrgrimm312 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: MPE2009 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Mrgrimm312 Go to Quoted Post
Hey MPE, if we go off your logic of thinking we would never file any grievances.

Think about our contractual rights. We have a right to be on the 8 hour list to limit overtime and we have a contractual right to be on the 12 or 10 ODL...

So when management willingly forces 8 hour personal to work overtime and knowing the 12 ODL people don’t have enough work to keep them diligently working as our contract said then why is there even an option to be on the 8 hour list???

So if you don’t fight management to manage according to contract then ground is lost and they will continue to violate persons not wanting overtime.

So your argument is kind of dumb. Also your basically saying that the 8 hour people don’t matter and should t be fought for. Which they all are paying union members. So it is of value to the union to push these grievances through other wise they can simply choose to get out of the union and that revenue over a long haul is worth a lot more to the union.

Case and point.


Rather stupid reply for you to make, since I offered no argument. I suggested that there may have been a grievance settlement or even arbitration in that office, which pertains to this particular issue. Therefore the union may have concluded that they will lose this grievance, esp if they have nothing new to fight it with and are not interested in losing it again. Reading is fundamental, try it. What research have you done on this issue? What level of participation do you offer the union? Do you just sit back and whine because "THEY" don't do enough for you or do you actively take part in the union and contribute?


Yes I was a steward for sometime. You would be right that many do not do their research and do whine and cry and feel entitled. But on the other hand if no one ever brings up an issue to a steward or raises an issue about something that they feel could be some sort of an issue then how does a steward ever find out or investigate the issue. The paying union members no matter what should be resprisented in one way or another. Why does it really matter if they come to a steward and raise an issue that very well may be not a grievance. Thats all the steward would have to explain

So yes under our local contract and the elm it clearly states that we as employees once clocked in that we are to diligently work. Under article 3 D it states management is to run the company efficiently.

Heres the issue i have. Management shouldnt be circumventing overtime violations by simply calling a forced 12 hour work day to screw over the 8 hour people to work off their assignments and then have the ODL and CCA sit there litteraly eating pizza for over 2 hours. Its a complete waste of company money and resources. Also creates an enviroment that will become hostile as 8 hour carriers begin to question why they are working over while others work some and sit around..

This is actually coming from a 12 hour ODL person. Thats me and i still think its BS. I am to be working not getting paid 64$ an hour to sit there. Am i the only one trying to look out for the future of the post office?

Bottom line if there is 5 hours of splits given to 8 hour people and then there is a total of 8 hours worth of sitting around by the ODL and CCA that is clearly not in the best interest of anyone. Company, CCA, ODL, Union, 8 hour, OWA.

SO yes I want to see what an unbiased person would say how management shouldnt be able to circumvent overtime violations by doing BS like this.


An outside observer would probably blame the union for this flagrant waste, just as in the "rubber room" issue with the teachers' unions. One thing I think needs to be addressed is why this is occurring. What is management's motivation? I doubt it is that they hate the non-ODL and want to stick it to them.
vHatch  
#24 Posted : Sunday, January 5, 2020 3:39:18 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: colty31 Go to Quoted Post
offices have carriers sitting around for hours at the end of the day? why?

that does not happen in our office, we have ODL carriers get back early sometimes but they simply clock out and go home


Ya, I'm confused by this as well. What is going on here? Why are people sitting in the office soaking up overtime and penalty? At my office we clock out and go home if the work is done.

My office has been terrible about enforcing the 12 hour rule though also, they don't want anybody working in penalty regardless of their list status. Union lets them get away with it.

Edited by user Sunday, January 5, 2020 3:40:58 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Roger.D  
#25 Posted : Sunday, January 5, 2020 4:16:29 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: vHatch Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: colty31 Go to Quoted Post
offices have carriers sitting around for hours at the end of the day? why?

that does not happen in our office, we have ODL carriers get back early sometimes but they simply clock out and go home


Ya, I'm confused by this as well. What is going on here? Why are people sitting in the office soaking up overtime and penalty? At my office we clock out and go home if the work is done.

My office has been terrible about enforcing the 12 hour rule though also, they don't want anybody working in penalty regardless of their list status. Union lets them get away with it.


It is simple.

If you mandate some one to work outside thier OT preference, you must work the OTDL people to 12 hours. Instead of the ODL people going home and the being paid "up to 12", management makes them sit in the break room until the they reach the 12 hour mark.

Management could have them watch safety videos or go through the waste mail or review their edit books........

Or actually go out and relieve yhe no OTDL carrier.

Edited by user Sunday, January 5, 2020 4:17:11 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

vHatch  
#26 Posted : Sunday, January 5, 2020 4:24:21 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: roger.d Go to Quoted Post

It is simple.

If you mandate some one to work outside thier OT preference, you must work the OTDL people to 12 hours. Instead of the ODL people going home and the being paid "up to 12", management makes them sit in the break room until the they reach the 12 hour mark.

Management could have them watch safety videos or go through the waste mail or review their edit books........

Or actually go out and relieve yhe no OTDL carrier.


Ya, it makes sense like that under the contract, still don't see how this makes any sense for the PM financially overall.

Like I said, this would never fly in my office since the 12 hour rule has never been followed since I started 7 years ago.
Roger.D  
#27 Posted : Sunday, January 5, 2020 4:37:30 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: vHatch Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: roger.d Go to Quoted Post

It is simple.

If you mandate some one to work outside thier OT preference, you must work the OTDL people to 12 hours. Instead of the ODL people going home and the being paid "up to 12", management makes them sit in the break room until the they reach the 12 hour mark.

Management could have them watch safety videos or go through the waste mail or review their edit books........

Or actually go out and relieve yhe no OTDL carrier.


Ya, it makes sense like that under the contract, still don't see how this makes any sense for the PM financially overall.

Like I said, this would never fly in my office since the 12 hour rule has never been followed since I started 7 years ago.


Either your OTDL carriers need to force a grievance or the non OTDL need to force a grievance.

As a non OTDL, I was recently paid .5 extra for OT work I did when the OTDL went home before 11.5 hours.

Your coworkers/steward are being complacent.


vHatch  
#28 Posted : Friday, January 10, 2020 8:03:39 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: roger.d Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: vHatch Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: roger.d Go to Quoted Post

It is simple.

If you mandate some one to work outside thier OT preference, you must work the OTDL people to 12 hours. Instead of the ODL people going home and the being paid "up to 12", management makes them sit in the break room until the they reach the 12 hour mark.

Management could have them watch safety videos or go through the waste mail or review their edit books........

Or actually go out and relieve yhe no OTDL carrier.


Ya, it makes sense like that under the contract, still don't see how this makes any sense for the PM financially overall.

Like I said, this would never fly in my office since the 12 hour rule has never been followed since I started 7 years ago.


Either your OTDL carriers need to force a grievance or the non OTDL need to force a grievance.

As a non OTDL, I was recently paid .5 extra for OT work I did when the OTDL went home before 11.5 hours.

Your coworkers/steward are being complacent.




Ya, not that I want to work the 12 hours but I am confused how every other office seems to go by this rule but our office typically doesn't allow even ODL carriers to work past 10 hours. They will give WAL people manditory pivots or even mando people in on their days off instead.

Our steward says it has been before higher levels of arbitration and management won under "grey language" dealing with the "last dispatch." IDK, it's weird.
RodOrRob  
#29 Posted : Friday, January 10, 2020 8:37:11 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: vHatch Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: roger.d Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: vHatch Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: roger.d Go to Quoted Post

It is simple.

If you mandate some one to work outside thier OT preference, you must work the OTDL people to 12 hours. Instead of the ODL people going home and the being paid "up to 12", management makes them sit in the break room until the they reach the 12 hour mark.

Management could have them watch safety videos or go through the waste mail or review their edit books........

Or actually go out and relieve yhe no OTDL carrier.


Ya, it makes sense like that under the contract, still don't see how this makes any sense for the PM financially overall.

Like I said, this would never fly in my office since the 12 hour rule has never been followed since I started 7 years ago.


Either your OTDL carriers need to force a grievance or the non OTDL need to force a grievance.

As a non OTDL, I was recently paid .5 extra for OT work I did when the OTDL went home before 11.5 hours.

Your coworkers/steward are being complacent.




Ya, not that I want to work the 12 hours but I am confused how every other office seems to go by this rule but our office typically doesn't allow even ODL carriers to work past 10 hours. They will give WAL people manditory pivots or even mando people in on their days off instead.

Our steward says it has been before higher levels of arbitration and management won under "grey language" dealing with the "last dispatch." IDK, it's weird.


WOO...Window Of Operations

https://www.nalc.org/wor...on-unit/body/C-30503.PDF

https://www.nalc.org/new...tes/window-of-operations
thanks 1 user thanked RodOrRob for this useful post.
vHatch on 1/12/2020(UTC)
vHatch  
#30 Posted : Sunday, January 12, 2020 8:26:03 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: RodOrRob Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: vHatch Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: roger.d Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: vHatch Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: roger.d Go to Quoted Post

It is simple.

If you mandate some one to work outside thier OT preference, you must work the OTDL people to 12 hours. Instead of the ODL people going home and the being paid "up to 12", management makes them sit in the break room until the they reach the 12 hour mark.

Management could have them watch safety videos or go through the waste mail or review their edit books........

Or actually go out and relieve yhe no OTDL carrier.


Ya, it makes sense like that under the contract, still don't see how this makes any sense for the PM financially overall.

Like I said, this would never fly in my office since the 12 hour rule has never been followed since I started 7 years ago.


Either your OTDL carriers need to force a grievance or the non OTDL need to force a grievance.

As a non OTDL, I was recently paid .5 extra for OT work I did when the OTDL went home before 11.5 hours.

Your coworkers/steward are being complacent.




Ya, not that I want to work the 12 hours but I am confused how every other office seems to go by this rule but our office typically doesn't allow even ODL carriers to work past 10 hours. They will give WAL people manditory pivots or even mando people in on their days off instead.

Our steward says it has been before higher levels of arbitration and management won under "grey language" dealing with the "last dispatch." IDK, it's weird.


WOO...Window Of Operations

https://www.nalc.org/wor...on-unit/body/C-30503.PDF

https://www.nalc.org/new...tes/window-of-operations


Thanks, so basically my steward is wrong and my station is lax?
Yukoncarrier24  
#31 Posted : Sunday, January 12, 2020 8:32:42 PM(UTC)
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Even if there is a last dispatch time, there is nothing to keep ODL carriers from going back out to hit their 12 hours
thanks 2 users thanked Yukoncarrier24 for this useful post.
roger.d on 1/12/2020(UTC), RodOrRob on 1/13/2020(UTC)
BusyMom  
#32 Posted : Monday, January 27, 2020 9:04:35 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: vHatch Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: colty31 Go to Quoted Post
offices have carriers sitting around for hours at the end of the day? why?

that does not happen in our office, we have ODL carriers get back early sometimes but they simply clock out and go home


Ya, I'm confused by this as well. What is going on here? Why are people sitting in the office soaking up overtime and penalty? At my office we clock out and go home if the work is done.

My office has been terrible about enforcing the 12 hour rule though also, they don't want anybody working in penalty regardless of their list status. Union lets them get away with it.


They cannot force the non ODL employees to work OT until the ODL employees are maxed out at 12. They will not let the ODL employees clock out early (before 12) or that will make their mandating the non ODL employees grievable.
colty31  
#33 Posted : Tuesday, January 28, 2020 9:14:11 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: BusyMom Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: vHatch Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: colty31 Go to Quoted Post
offices have carriers sitting around for hours at the end of the day? why?

that does not happen in our office, we have ODL carriers get back early sometimes but they simply clock out and go home


Ya, I'm confused by this as well. What is going on here? Why are people sitting in the office soaking up overtime and penalty? At my office we clock out and go home if the work is done.

My office has been terrible about enforcing the 12 hour rule though also, they don't want anybody working in penalty regardless of their list status. Union lets them get away with it.


They cannot force the non ODL employees to work OT until the ODL employees are maxed out at 12. They will not let the ODL employees clock out early (before 12) or that will make their mandating the non ODL employees grievable.


I understand that but it doesn’t make any sense for management to do this. They are paying people to sit around when they should split up all the OT between the OTDL list.
Yukoncarrier24  
#34 Posted : Tuesday, January 28, 2020 3:30:37 PM(UTC)
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You want management to make sense. That's good for a laugh
RodOrRob  
#35 Posted : Tuesday, January 28, 2020 4:34:31 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: colty31 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: BusyMom Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: vHatch Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: colty31 Go to Quoted Post
offices have carriers sitting around for hours at the end of the day? why?

that does not happen in our office, we have ODL carriers get back early sometimes but they simply clock out and go home


Ya, I'm confused by this as well. What is going on here? Why are people sitting in the office soaking up overtime and penalty? At my office we clock out and go home if the work is done.

My office has been terrible about enforcing the 12 hour rule though also, they don't want anybody working in penalty regardless of their list status. Union lets them get away with it.


They cannot force the non ODL employees to work OT until the ODL employees are maxed out at 12. They will not let the ODL employees clock out early (before 12) or that will make their mandating the non ODL employees grievable.


I understand that but it doesn’t make any sense for management to do this. They are paying people to sit around when they should split up all the OT between the OTDL list.


Art 3...Management has the right to mismanage!
almost1  
#36 Posted : Tuesday, January 28, 2020 7:08:26 PM(UTC)
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I find this post interesting. Some in management seem to do whatever they want. For example my coworkers and myself have had 6 observations each in the last 12 months. Recently they told us if we are on the odl we must work 60hrs, if we are not on the odl we must work 56 hours. When asked how they can do these things the reply is they can have us do whatever and we can grieve it later.
Cntpfrm  
#37 Posted : Tuesday, January 28, 2020 7:24:27 PM(UTC)
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I’m sure the IG would be interested if management is instructing carriers to sit in the office on overtime and double time just to avoid a grievance. It also sounds like you’re steward is a little too cozy with management if they’re advising them on ways to avoid maximizing carriers on the ODL list before forcing non ODL’s to work mandated overtime. If it was just forcing you to work and ODLs going home under 12 or 10 hours, I’d say grieve it.....but having them sit in the office not doing jack? That rises above a simple grievance to me.
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