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someoldguy  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, April 28, 2020 5:30:20 PM(UTC)
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When you can print more money, you never have to file for bankruptcy. Yes it leads to runaway inflation but that's just a minor concern. Both parties are ready to spend money like mad and have been for decades.

Enjoy the ride.
DISCLAIMER: You read it on an open internet forum :)
thanks 1 user thanked someoldguy for this useful post.
BLUES2017 on 5/1/2020(UTC)
postalvet  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, April 29, 2020 5:46:11 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: BLUES2017 Go to Quoted Post
I am reading alot of stuff and binge watching the news. Debt Jubilees, US may file for the big BK. Is our g fund safe. Will we lose our gfund deposit in a bankruptcy.Thanks for any reply.


stop watching fox and any other "news"



"2) The US can never 'go bankrupt' insofar as bankruptcy is a "civil, legal procedure." Since the US is a sovereign nation, it can't really be hauled into court and made to 'go bankrupt' the same way a corporation or person could be; so in the legal sense, the US can never 'go bankrupt'.

Further, as others have pointed out, the US borrows in it's own ..."


https://www.quora.com/Is...t-USA-goes-in-bankruptcy

Edited by user Wednesday, April 29, 2020 5:47:45 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

remember you read it on an open forum


Don't be ashamed to call out the insults


trump lost


thanks 1 user thanked postalvet for this useful post.
BLUES2017 on 5/1/2020(UTC)
BLUES2017  
#3 Posted : Friday, May 1, 2020 6:33:58 PM(UTC)
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Thanks for the reading material.38 yrs looooooooooooooooong time.
GordonG  
#4 Posted : Sunday, May 3, 2020 6:55:27 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: BLUES2017 Go to Quoted Post
I am reading alot of stuff and binge watching the news. Debt Jubilees, US may file for the big BK. Is our g fund safe. Will we lose our gfund deposit in a bankruptcy.Thanks for any reply.



What are your news sources?
#Biden/Harris #Resist #Obstruct #Impeach
GSBS  
#5 Posted : Sunday, May 3, 2020 11:07:12 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: GordonG Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: BLUES2017 Go to Quoted Post
I am reading alot of stuff and binge watching the news. Debt Jubilees, US may file for the big BK. Is our g fund safe. Will we lose our gfund deposit in a bankruptcy.Thanks for any reply.



What are your news sources?
Donald Trump himself. 'Everything Trump Touches Dies'

thanks 2 users thanked GSBS for this useful post.
postalvet on 5/3/2020(UTC), Bureaucratic on 5/5/2020(UTC)
GordonG  
#6 Posted : Sunday, May 3, 2020 3:58:42 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: GSBS Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: GordonG Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: BLUES2017 Go to Quoted Post
I am reading alot of stuff and binge watching the news. Debt Jubilees, US may file for the big BK. Is our g fund safe. Will we lose our gfund deposit in a bankruptcy.Thanks for any reply.



What are your news sources?
Donald Trump himself. 'Everything Trump Touches Dies'




Honest question waiting for a reasonable answer from the OP.


#Biden/Harris #Resist #Obstruct #Impeach
postalvet  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, May 5, 2020 7:26:37 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: BLUES2017 Go to Quoted Post
Are you speaking to me? Not really sure. .



you are the op (original poster)


but you did not provide any links, without links it is just words.


so after posting my answer you delete your post?
WHY?

Edited by user Tuesday, May 5, 2020 11:36:23 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

remember you read it on an open forum


Don't be ashamed to call out the insults


trump lost


GordonG  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, May 6, 2020 11:23:18 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: postalvet Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: BLUES2017 Go to Quoted Post
Are you speaking to me? Not really sure. .



you are the op (original poster)


but you did not provide any links, without links it is just words.


so after posting my answer you delete your post?
WHY?



It takes most people awhile to figure out they don't like you.

He figured it out ASAP!!

Hahahahaha
#Biden/Harris #Resist #Obstruct #Impeach
mallen  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, May 6, 2020 12:48:46 PM(UTC)

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Seems like the same sort of gross misunderstanding of how things work as the people who panic about news headlines like "the us borrowed trillions from China" and "the fed printed a half a trillion dollars in money"

Let's look at these two in a little more detail.
1) "The US 'borrowed' trillions from the Chinese. Well,first off this didn't really happen. The us did not go to China and say "can I borrow a trillion dollars, and then sign a loan agreement" like you do when you buy a car or a house. Which makes the next thing that is allways said even more absurd. It's allways followed by a panicked question of "what if they call the loans due" as if somehow they could demand payment and take over the United States with nothing more than the stroke of a pen. When something sounds that absurd, you can bet it is. What happens is, the Fed controls the money supply buy buying and selling bonds. We will get into that in a bit. China, recognizing the stability of the American economy , just like everyone else in the world, buys a lot of those bonds. Far from giving China power over us, it makes them dependant. If America tanks, those bonds will become worthless.(it's one reason why our strong economy is so valuable, we can leverage it to sell bonds) It's telling that in times of trouble, everyone wants to move their assets to those bonds. So no, we didn't really borrow money from China except in a very general sense. We sold bonds some of which China bought.

That brings is to the second panicked statement. That the fed just printed some massive amount of currency. This is usually followed by some comparison to post war Italy and it's declared that soon it will take a wheelbarrow full of money just to buy a loaf of bread. (I suggest buying some flour instead and making a very nice sourdough. When breads going for a million dollars a loaf at the bakery, you can probably bring in a nice loaf of freshly made sourdough in your own oven for a mere $200-$300k. Make a few extra loaves for resale and you can probably net yourself a quick million.) But seriously,it's all a bunch of BS (except the fresh bread which is awesome). First, the it's the Bureau of Engraving and Printing that prints money. Second, the fed does NOT control the money supply by just creating money out of thin air. (And neither does any other agency in the US) They buy and sell bonds.

Consider when there is too much money in the economy. Like anything else in the economy, supply and demand set value. It doesn't matter if your buying a house or bartering chickens for corn. If the supply is low compared to the demand it's proportionately more valuable, and vice-versa.

Money is no different. If there is not enough available, we have deflation. Money becomes very valuable compared to the goods it can buy and prices fall out of control. Similarly, if there is too much money available then it becomes substantially less valuable and prices rise.

The feds job is to regulate this. To maintain a happy medium. If there is too much money, the fed sells bonds. People buy them because they are a safe investment. That money is now taken out of the system. They have good liquidity, that is, you can easily sell them to someone else, but now you have the money and they dont. The supply of money is still reduced. Notice, you never see a headline that says "Fed destroys a half a billion dollars. Its not "exciting" It just leaves people scratching their heads.

But what if there is not enough money in the economy. Well, in that case, they buy back bonds. When the government does that it flushes that money back into the economy. The money supply increases. Deflation is countered by a measure of inflation and the status quo is maintained. So no need to go get a wheelbarrow to carry your money to the bakery.

Of course that's a very simple description. For example, right now the government just spent trillions of dollars. That money of course ends up as a deficit, and you can bet, it will end up being in the form of treasury bonds. The lesson here is that the nations economy ... And the world's... Don't work quite like your household budget does.

But people want tiny little sound bite explanations. Ever had someone ask you a question that has a complex answer and then when you try to give it to them their eyes just glaze over of they say "get to the point". No one wants the real,complex, answer. They want a headline. So when the fed does the routine task of maintaining the supply of money in the economy, rather than a chapter from an econ textbook, they try to translate it, imperfectly , into some concept people can wrap their head around. They print "FED PRINTS A TRILLION DOLLARS" because that's the most complex thing most people can manage to understand.

But explanations like that often lack subtle, and often key details. "FED PRINTS A TRILLION DOLLARS" conveys the part about increasing the money supply, but the nuanced details of what's really happening, and how it all worked are totally lost. It's like when you read "A breif history of time" or watch Michio Kaku and think you understand black holes and quantum physics. You really dont. You just have the illusion of understanding. (Fortunately, economics is a bit more accessable)

How does this relate to "US considering bankruptcy"? It sounds like the same kind of oversimplification. Although not a good idea, there are some, and they are a very small minority in government who think we could "monitize" some or all of our national debt. There are arguments from economists that the damage from doing it might be manageable if it was done carefully. And perhaps there is a hypothetical situation where they might be right and it might be necessary. (University professors love love to speculate like that) Monitizing debt is actually akin to the "printing money thing". To give you a quick sound bite answer, it's kinda like just writing off the debt. If you borrow, and then write it off, then the analogy is making money out of thin air. If on the other hand you borrow responsibly, run into some unexpected financial trouble, and then just that one time, write off your debts and start over, it's analagous to bankruptcy. To take it further, if you do it once your finances and your credit score take a hit, but after a little while you recover. I still think it's something to be avoided. And of course my little sound bite description doesn't explain the nuances of how it would really work. But that's probably the tiny grain of truth in what he was taking about. And no, there are few who actually think it's a good idea. We've had far more troubles than this and gotten through it.
thanks 1 user thanked for this useful post.
BLUES2017 on 5/12/2020(UTC)
postalvet  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, May 6, 2020 2:04:41 PM(UTC)
postalvet

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Originally Posted by: GordonG Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: postalvet Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: BLUES2017 Go to Quoted Post
Are you speaking to me? Not really sure. .



you are the op (original poster)


but you did not provide any links, without links it is just words.


so after posting my answer you delete your post?
WHY?



It takes most people awhile to figure out they don't like you.

He figured it out ASAP!!

Hahahahaha


but it did not take long for everyone to figure out you are a what leslie calls sheldon.
remember you read it on an open forum


Don't be ashamed to call out the insults


trump lost


postalvet  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, May 6, 2020 2:09:12 PM(UTC)
postalvet

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Originally Posted by: mallen Go to Quoted Post
Seems like the same sort of gross misunderstanding of how things work as the people who panic about news headlines like "the us borrowed trillions from China" and "the fed printed a half a trillion dollars in money"

Let's look at these two in a little more detail.
1) "The US 'borrowed' trillions from the Chinese. Well,first off this didn't really happen. The us did not go to China and say "can I borrow a trillion dollars, and then sign a loan agreement" like you do when you buy a car or a house. Which makes the next thing that is allways said even more absurd. It's allways followed by a panicked question of "what if they call the loans due" as if somehow they could demand payment and take over the United States with nothing more than the stroke of a pen. When something sounds that absurd, you can bet it is. What happens is, the Fed controls the money supply buy buying and selling bonds. We will get into that in a bit. China, recognizing the stability of the American economy , just like everyone else in the world, buys a lot of those bonds. Far from giving China power over us, it makes them dependant. If America tanks, those bonds will become worthless.(it's one reason why our strong economy is so valuable, we can leverage it to sell bonds) It's telling that in times of trouble, everyone wants to move their assets to those bonds. So no, we didn't really borrow money from China except in a very general sense. We sold bonds some of which China bought.

That brings is to the second panicked statement. That the fed just printed some massive amount of currency. This is usually followed by some comparison to post war Italy and it's declared that soon it will take a wheelbarrow full of money just to buy a loaf of bread. (I suggest buying some flour instead and making a very nice sourdough. When breads going for a million dollars a loaf at the bakery, you can probably bring in a nice loaf of freshly made sourdough in your own oven for a mere $200-$300k. Make a few extra loaves for resale and you can probably net yourself a quick million.) But seriously,it's all a bunch of BS (except the fresh bread which is awesome). First, the it's the Bureau of Engraving and Printing that prints money. Second, the fed does NOT control the money supply by just creating money out of thin air. (And neither does any other agency in the US) They buy and sell bonds.

Consider when there is too much money in the economy. Like anything else in the economy, supply and demand set value. It doesn't matter if your buying a house or bartering chickens for corn. If the supply is low compared to the demand it's proportionately more valuable, and vice-versa.

Money is no different. If there is not enough available, we have deflation. Money becomes very valuable compared to the goods it can buy and prices fall out of control. Similarly, if there is too much money available then it becomes substantially less valuable and prices rise.

The feds job is to regulate this. To maintain a happy medium. If there is too much money, the fed sells bonds. People buy them because they are a safe investment. That money is now taken out of the system. They have good liquidity, that is, you can easily sell them to someone else, but now you have the money and they dont. The supply of money is still reduced. Notice, you never see a headline that says "Fed destroys a half a billion dollars. Its not "exciting" It just leaves people scratching their heads.

But what if there is not enough money in the economy. Well, in that case, they buy back bonds. When the government does that it flushes that money back into the economy. The money supply increases. Deflation is countered by a measure of inflation and the status quo is maintained. So no need to go get a wheelbarrow to carry your money to the bakery.

Of course that's a very simple description. For example, right now the government just spent trillions of dollars. That money of course ends up as a deficit, and you can bet, it will end up being in the form of treasury bonds. The lesson here is that the nations economy ... And the world's... Don't work quite like your household budget does.

But people want tiny little sound bite explanations. Ever had someone ask you a question that has a complex answer and then when you try to give it to them their eyes just glaze over of they say "get to the point". No one wants the real,complex, answer. They want a headline. So when the fed does the routine task of maintaining the supply of money in the economy, rather than a chapter from an econ textbook, they try to translate it, imperfectly , into some concept people can wrap their head around. They print "FED PRINTS A TRILLION DOLLARS" because that's the most complex thing most people can manage to understand.

But explanations like that often lack subtle, and often key details. "FED PRINTS A TRILLION DOLLARS" conveys the part about increasing the money supply, but the nuanced details of what's really happening, and how it all worked are totally lost. It's like when you read "A breif history of time" or watch Michio Kaku and think you understand black holes and quantum physics. You really dont. You just have the illusion of understanding. (Fortunately, economics is a bit more accessable)

How does this relate to "US considering bankruptcy"? It sounds like the same kind of oversimplification. Although not a good idea, there are some, and they are a very small minority in government who think we could "monitize" some or all of our national debt. There are arguments from economists that the damage from doing it might be manageable if it was done carefully. And perhaps there is a hypothetical situation where they might be right and it might be necessary. (University professors love love to speculate like that) Monitizing debt is actually akin to the "printing money thing". To give you a quick sound bite answer, it's kinda like just writing off the debt. If you borrow, and then write it off, then the analogy is making money out of thin air. If on the other hand you borrow responsibly, run into some unexpected financial trouble, and then just that one time, write off your debts and start over, it's analagous to bankruptcy. To take it further, if you do it once your finances and your credit score take a hit, but after a little while you recover. I still think it's something to be avoided. And of course my little sound bite description doesn't explain the nuances of how it would really work. But that's probably the tiny grain of truth in what he was taking about. And no, there are few who actually think it's a good idea. We've had far more troubles than this and gotten through it.






but, but, but the right said.............




good post explaining it.

can't wait for the rebuttal.....


hahaha


getting the pop corn now....
remember you read it on an open forum


Don't be ashamed to call out the insults


trump lost


GordonG  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, May 6, 2020 2:24:03 PM(UTC)
GordonG

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Originally Posted by: postalvet Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: GordonG Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: postalvet Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: BLUES2017 Go to Quoted Post
Are you speaking to me? Not really sure. .



you are the op (original poster)


but you did not provide any links, without links it is just words.


so after posting my answer you delete your post?
WHY?



It takes most people awhile to figure out they don't like you.

He figured it out ASAP!!

Hahahahaha


but it did not take long for everyone to figure out you are a what leslie calls sheldon.


If I only knew ** you're talking about.

Leslie? Sheldon?

Is that teenage girl stuff?

Don't know bud.

Say what ya gotta say.

+
+
+

Edited by user Wednesday, May 6, 2020 6:18:19 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

#Biden/Harris #Resist #Obstruct #Impeach
mallen  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, May 6, 2020 4:16:05 PM(UTC)

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UserPostedImage

Then again, maybe bankruptcy WOULD be a good idea. Finally, the Presidents experience in business and his expertise would be exactly what the country needed. Donald Trump has driven companies into the ground before, then stuck his creditors with the bill, and emerged from bankruptcy stronger than ever. Its said that at one point, he pointed at a homeless man and remarked to his daughter Ivanka, "That man has more money than I do!" Why not do it with the country. Under normal times we were able to get by. But these are not normal times so hard decisions have to be made. Some states are doing well and have strong economies, but have just been sandbagged by this virus thing. Those would be ok if we just stuck someone else with the debt and left them holding the bag. We could fix the states that are marginal, and liquidate the ones that are just totally unprofitable, emerging as a more nimble and leaner nation. This would work like any other bankruptcy. We create the "new United States" (or 'nUSA' for short) that keeps the strong, internationally recognized brands of USA, United States of America, Unite States Army, US Navy,etc. The states that can be returned to profitability would be part of 'nUSA' (thats just shorthand to help us keep track, nUSA gets to keep the name United States) The states that are not profitable we sell off either in whole or in part and the money goes to nUSA for operating capital. The rest of the assets stay with oUSA (old USA)

The chart above shows which states are profitable and which ones are not thus giving an indication of how bankruptcy would work out.
The following states:
California
Massachusetts
Wyoming
Oklahoma
New Jersey
Utah
Colorado
New York
Kansas
Ohio
Nebraska
Illinois
Minnesota
Delaware.

are all profitable.

Those all go with nUSA

These states:
South Dakota
Nevada
Arkansas
Michigan
New Hampshire
Washington
Missouri
Georgia
Iowa
are all unprofitable, but not particularly so.
They can likely be rehabilitated. Nevada for example has low taxes as well as gambling and prostitution. Hookers and gambling is a recipie for success if I have ever heard one. How can they NOT be profitable. This should be easily fixable.

The next list of states are just hopelessly lost causes.
South Carolina
North Dakota
Florida
Louisiana
Alabama
Hawaii
Mississippi
New Mexico
Kentucky
West Virginia
Indiana
Maine
Virginia
Wisconsin
Tennessee
Arizona
Maryland
Rhode Island
Montana
Texas
Alaska
Vermont
Idaho
North Carolina
Pennsylvania
Oregon
Connecticut

Dont get me wrong. They are not a TOTAL loss. There are plenty of assets that can be sold off. For example, the Russians will probably want to make a bid for Alaska in its entirety. Its close to them but there is plenty of oil there so it wont go cheap. Similarly, Japan as recently as the 1940s expressed interest in Hawaii and may want the entire state. Northern Ireland may be interested in Idahos potato farms, anyone who likes cheese would be interested in Vermont (and who doesn't), and there are many nations in the middle east who might be interested in Texas both for its oil wealth (again, it wont go cheap) as well as its vast uninhabitable tracts of desert wasteland. Mexico may also be interested for historical reasons. At the very least, they will probably put in a competing bid against Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and perhaps Iran. (Kuwait is small, could really use the space and George Bush International Airport might be the final icing on the cake).

I think we could really come out of this in great shape.

Edited by user Wednesday, May 6, 2020 4:24:10 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 1 user thanked for this useful post.
BLUES2017 on 5/12/2020(UTC)
OUtside  
#14 Posted : Thursday, May 7, 2020 4:26:58 PM(UTC)

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LOL.
thanks 1 user thanked for this useful post.
GSBS on 5/10/2020(UTC)
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