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Joe!  
#1 Posted : Monday, June 1, 2020 6:07:10 PM(UTC)
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Question on an agency to agency transfer and counting creditable service.

Transfer from executive branch to DoD.
Agency A -Executive Branch: 14 months on a Pathways Schedule D. This was not converted to career conditional because the agency had a 2 year pathways program. There was a promotion after a year.

Agency B did a VRA appointment and and converted to career conditional after 2 years

1 - Agency A and Agency B have more than 3 years of service.

Transferred from Agency A at the end of a pay period. And started with Agency B at the beginning.

2 - Agency B HRO interprets a two day break in service because my last work day at agency A was a Friday and my first work day at agency B was a Monday.

3 -Agency B states the credible service time only started at Agency B due to agency A never completing the career conversion and a two day break in service on a schedule D appointment.

Is this a correct interpretation of the CFR? Or is this an incorrect break in service? It seems to me a promotion is similar to an agency transfer in the sense that the SF50 is updated.
frankgonzalez  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, June 2, 2020 2:57:02 AM(UTC)
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I'm not an HR guru, but I do believe that is not a correct interpretation. I left DoD to move to DHS. My last day at DoD was a Friday (I was on leave), and I started on a Monday...but had 0 (zero) gaps in service as the weekend was not my normally scheduled duty days.

The only potential issue I see is you were in the Pathways program which may impact whether you are considered an employee for creditable service or not (for example, you would have had only limited MSPB rights while in the Pathways program).

Hopefully, one of the HR types here will respond.
You should have voted Cthulu...the greatest of all Evils
djp  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, June 2, 2020 5:30:43 AM(UTC)

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DOD is part of the executive branch of government.

I’m confused with your timeline.

What exactly did the SF 50 say before you transferred?



hemihem  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, June 2, 2020 6:02:22 AM(UTC)
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Normally your last day would be Saturday, and your first day Sunday. Although you were physically in the office or present on Friday losing organization, and you were present on Monday gaining organization. Unless you took leave. If you resigned from the losing organization that's a different road.
RVRGRL  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, June 2, 2020 6:48:11 AM(UTC)
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Did your gaining HR process it as a transfer? Or new appointment?

Just guessing here...also not an HR guru...but of my actual transfers, my initial SF 50 for the new agency states "Transfer", versus "appointment" for my first fed job, or "reinstatement" for my break in service. Both of my first fed job and after break in service reinstatement SF50s start on a Monday. Only my transfers have been sat/sun, end/beginning, of a pay period.

I bet what happened is that since your pathways didn't convert you, Agency A ended you on a Friday, and Agency B processed you as a new appointment and started you on a Monday, which means you have a break in service...whether that was appropriate or not, I'm not sure, but I think it's valid. (HR folks, please correct me if I'm wrong :P )

So, check your effective dates for both.

If your effective dates of the final SF50 at agency A and initial SF50 at agency B are truly end of pp and beginning of the following pp, I'm not sure how they're getting a break in service.

Also, it didn't matter at the time because I'd planned for and expected the break in service, but my pathways wasn't converted either, and the effective date on my final SF50 was a Friday.... however, my pathways was considered creditable service...but this this may be because I'd already been career--my pathways was in between two careers.

Edited by user Tuesday, June 2, 2020 7:42:19 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

TheRealOrange  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, June 2, 2020 7:57:30 AM(UTC)
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It appears that a two day break should not have much of an impact. From OPM:

BREAK IN SERVICE—The time when an employee is no longer on the payroll of an agency. (In computing creditable service for benefits, e.g., leave accrual and reduction in force retention, a separation of 1, 2, or 3 calendar days is not considered to be a break in service; a separation of 4 or more calendar days is considered to be a break in service and the days of separation are subtracted from the employee's total creditable service.).

Source: Chapter 35. Glossary of Terms Used in Processing Personnel Actions, THE GUIDE TO PROCESSING PERSONNEL ACTIONS.

The same language can be found on the USAJobs Help Center glossary. https://www.usajobs.gov/Help/glossary/
RVRGRL  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, June 2, 2020 8:57:05 AM(UTC)
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I was looking for that! I also found that definition of break in service in the Pathways Handbook....however, as far as the time being creditable, he wasn't converted. When I was looking for info I found the following under the 5 CFR 315.201

Creditable Service, Non-temporary employment

(xiii) The date of appointment as a Pathways Participant in the Internship Program under Schedule D, § 213.3402(a) of this chapter, provided the employee's appointment is converted to a career or career-conditional appointment under § 315.713(a), with or without an intervening term appointment, and without a break in service of one day;

(xiv) The date of appointment as a Pathways Participant in the Recent Graduates Program under Schedule D, § 213.3402(b) of this chapter, provided the employee's appointment is converted to a career or career-conditional appointment under § 315.713(b), with or without an intervening term appointment, and without a break in service of one day;

It seems he would have had to have been converted, and without a break in service of one day...

Though it's possible this may apply? same CFR: (iv) Intervening service. Certain types of service that ordinarily are not creditable are counted when they intervene between two periods of creditable service. Under these conditions, credit each period of service: [there's a list, included military service]

I'm assuming he has creditable military service since he was brought into Agency B under VRA. So as I interpret this, then his time in military creditable service + time as Pathways (intervening service) + plus current creditable service = all creditable service regardless conversion or of break in service on either side of the pathways...

Edited by user Tuesday, June 2, 2020 9:18:26 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

TheRealOrange  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, June 2, 2020 9:14:34 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: RVRGRL Go to Quoted Post
OP, what I would do is go back and with the definition..., ask them to clarify why the time isn't creditable under which definitions and references...

I was not considering the Schedule D appointment under Pathways. My guess is that Agency B may be correct in stating that "the credible service time started at Agency B due to agency A never completing the career conversion and a two day break in service on a schedule D appointment." I doubt the break is the issue. The issue probably is the nature of the Schedule D appointment and the lack of conversion. That said, it never hurts to ask.

Of note, the Pathways Programs Handbook -- https://www.opm.gov/poli...ys-programs-handbook.pdf -- uses the same definition of "break in service":

Break in Service: The time when an employee is no longer on the payroll of an agency. A separation of less than three calendar days is not considered a break in service. (In computing creditable service for benefits (e.g., leave accrual and reduction in force retention), a separation of one, two or three calendar days is not considered to be a break in service; a separation of four or more calendar days is considered to be a break in service and the days of separation are subtracted from the employee’s total creditable service.)
djp  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, June 2, 2020 4:03:06 PM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: TheRealOrange Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RVRGRL Go to Quoted Post
OP, what I would do is go back and with the definition..., ask them to clarify why the time isn't creditable under which definitions and references...

I was not considering the Schedule D appointment under Pathways. My guess is that Agency B may be correct in stating that "the credible service time started at Agency B due to agency A never completing the career conversion and a two day break in service on a schedule D appointment." I doubt the break is the issue. The issue probably is the nature of the Schedule D appointment and the lack of conversion. That said, it never hurts to ask.

Of note, the Pathways Programs Handbook -- https://www.opm.gov/poli...ys-programs-handbook.pdf -- uses the same definition of "break in service":

Break in Service: The time when an employee is no longer on the payroll of an agency. A separation of less than three calendar days is not considered a break in service. (In computing creditable service for benefits (e.g., leave accrual and reduction in force retention), a separation of one, two or three calendar days is not considered to be a break in service; a separation of four or more calendar days is considered to be a break in service and the days of separation are subtracted from the employee’s total creditable service.)


This...and...

Unless an employee resigns or is fired. There ending date matched with the pay period of Saturday.

Your start date is the first Sunday of a pay period so there would not be a break in service

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