Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

New Federal Employee

Are you thinking of becoming a federal employee? Or, perhaps you have recently joined the federal workplace. Here is a forum to share experience and ask for insight for those already a member of the largest employer in the USA.

To read today's top news stories on federal employee pay, benefits, retirement, job rights and other workplace issues visit FederalDaily.com.

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
quicksilver  
#1 Posted : Friday, June 26, 2020 5:20:15 PM(UTC)
quicksilver

Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 11/2/2018(UTC)
Posts: 13
United States

Thanks: 5 times
What do you think and will this be in effect when it was signed? How long do you think the current hiring will change to this new regulation?

Link below for the signing of federal hiring process to hire based on skills/knowledge vs degree reqs.

https://www.govexec.com/...l-hiring-process/166471/

Edited by user Friday, June 26, 2020 5:21:02 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Endless Summer  
#2 Posted : Friday, June 26, 2020 5:52:25 PM(UTC)
Endless Summer

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 6/7/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,185

Thanks: 55 times
Was thanked: 253 time(s) in 217 post(s)
Originally Posted by: quicksilver Go to Quoted Post
What do you think and will this be in effect when it was signed? How long do you think the current hiring will change to this new regulation?

Link below for the signing of federal hiring process to hire based on skills/knowledge vs degree reqs.

https://www.govexec.com/...l-hiring-process/166471/


I don't see it changing much from the way things are currently done. With very few exceptions experience has always counted more than education. It may not have been codified before but it's the way it is done.

You can see this for yourself in job announcements, many state outright that education is not accepted as an alternative to experience, especially at the GS-11+ levels. Even where education is allowed in lieu of experience, the candidate with 4 years' experience and no degree will usually rise above the one with no experience and a 4 year degree.
King_Fed  
#3 Posted : Saturday, June 27, 2020 6:31:41 AM(UTC)
King_Fed

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 10/26/2013(UTC)
Posts: 579

Thanks: 34 times
Was thanked: 62 time(s) in 53 post(s)
I've not read it in detail, but I'd be interesting in how it is interpreted by HR.

Here is the link so you can read for yourself... not sure why articles are written without links:

https://www.whitehouse.g...-federal-job-candidates/

djp  
#4 Posted : Saturday, June 27, 2020 3:45:47 PM(UTC)

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 7/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,137

Thanks: 4 times
Was thanked: 155 time(s) in 152 post(s)
As an EO and not something congress passed, this can be turned off WiFi Biden is elected. Any changes will not be imp,emrnted till after the election.

In terms of what was in here...it really doesn’t change much.

In my current area of expertise of statistics and data analysis in 1500 series jobs thst carries positive education requirements just as a first step, many many agencies go around this by using 0343 fields to bypass the education requirements. This is true in other fields where they use non degree series as a sub for the degree requirements.

The hiring process still gives veterans the advantage even if they are not the best candidate.

What they should do is have us citizens job open to all with vet preferences, then have jobs just for veterans, thrn jobs for status that is based on merit.
In theory in many places it’s a who you know system.

frankgonzalez  
#5 Posted : Monday, June 29, 2020 6:43:25 AM(UTC)
frankgonzalez

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 8/8/2008(UTC)
Posts: 5,469

Thanks: 96 times
Was thanked: 1054 time(s) in 839 post(s)
Generally the progression is: Experience+Education>Experience>Education.

Exceptions are jobs where there is a positive education requirement, but once that is met, then the above applies.

I say this as a GS-14 with a couple of Community College of the Air Force Associate of Science degrees (which you will rightly recognize as being basically worthless outside the Air Force as an enlisted member seeking promotion to the top enlisted ranks or as potentially useful for transfer to a 4 year school which is very military friendly), but I do have a solid 22+ years of experience in my field, and I am sought out as an SME in my areas of expertise.

So...I don't think this EO will change much except maybe force DoD to quit insisting on degrees for jobs that don't require them (but I bet they keep considering PME to be a positive thing to have when applying for jobs even though it has nothing to do with the job at hand!!)
You should have voted Cthulu...the greatest of all Evils
djp  
#6 Posted : Monday, June 29, 2020 7:32:36 AM(UTC)

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 7/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,137

Thanks: 4 times
Was thanked: 155 time(s) in 152 post(s)
Originally Posted by: frankgonzalez Go to Quoted Post
Generally the progression is: Experience+Education>Experience>Education.

Exceptions are jobs where there is a positive education requirement, but once that is met, then the above applies.

I say this as a GS-14 with a couple of Community College of the Air Force Associate of Science degrees (which you will rightly recognize as being basically worthless outside the Air Force as an enlisted member seeking promotion to the top enlisted ranks or as potentially useful for transfer to a 4 year school which is very military friendly), but I do have a solid 22+ years of experience in my field, and I am sought out as an SME in my areas of expertise.

So...I don't think this EO will change much except maybe force DoD to quit insisting on degrees for jobs that don't require them (but I bet they keep considering PME to be a positive thing to have when applying for jobs even though it has nothing to do with the job at hand!!)


While I don’t say someone who doesn’t have a degree can advance in their career, as time goes on it’s a bigger factor now.

If your promo was internal where peop,e selected you already knew you, or knew your boss and references really well your degree will have less of an impact.

If you are a candidate with others applying to a job and all are outside the agency then a big decider will be degrees.

Currently in the military O5 and above require a masters or higher. There has been long talk of doing that on the civilian side.

frankgonzalez  
#7 Posted : Monday, June 29, 2020 8:43:32 AM(UTC)
frankgonzalez

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 8/8/2008(UTC)
Posts: 5,469

Thanks: 96 times
Was thanked: 1054 time(s) in 839 post(s)
Originally Posted by: djp Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: frankgonzalez Go to Quoted Post
Generally the progression is: Experience+Education>Experience>Education.

Exceptions are jobs where there is a positive education requirement, but once that is met, then the above applies.

I say this as a GS-14 with a couple of Community College of the Air Force Associate of Science degrees (which you will rightly recognize as being basically worthless outside the Air Force as an enlisted member seeking promotion to the top enlisted ranks or as potentially useful for transfer to a 4 year school which is very military friendly), but I do have a solid 22+ years of experience in my field, and I am sought out as an SME in my areas of expertise.

So...I don't think this EO will change much except maybe force DoD to quit insisting on degrees for jobs that don't require them (but I bet they keep considering PME to be a positive thing to have when applying for jobs even though it has nothing to do with the job at hand!!)


While I don’t say someone who doesn’t have a degree can advance in their career, as time goes on it’s a bigger factor now.

If your promo was internal where peop,e selected you already knew you, or knew your boss and references really well your degree will have less of an impact.

If you are a candidate with others applying to a job and all are outside the agency then a big decider will be degrees.

Currently in the military O5 and above require a masters or higher. There has been long talk of doing that on the civilian side.

That's my point...DoD treats civilians like they are in the military. Two different animals. They also expect PME from civilians at the higher grades (which leads to the no O-5/O-6 left behind hirings). And, this is why I expect this EO to be more an impact on DoD than some other agencies, if it remains in effect (or they don't get a waiver or just ignore it!). That said, I have had interviews at the GS14/15 level for DoD, but now I'm at NASA, not likely to jump ship to a worse place to work!

As for progression: I started as a GG12 in DoD, to GS13 at USCG, then my current position at NASA (a place with a lot of folks with graduate degrees!). Apart from my first position (EO is a small community in the USAF, and I retired from that community to return to it 5 months later), no-one knew me at any of the positions I have gotten, and even with my first one, I had 5 other offers in hand at the same grade where I didn't know any one at those agencies. The "trick" is a good resume to get you into the interview.

You should have voted Cthulu...the greatest of all Evils
Endless Summer  
#8 Posted : Monday, June 29, 2020 1:08:46 PM(UTC)
Endless Summer

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 6/7/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,185

Thanks: 55 times
Was thanked: 253 time(s) in 217 post(s)
Originally Posted by: frankgonzalez Go to Quoted Post
...
And, this is why I expect this EO to be more an impact on DoD than some other agencies, if it remains in effect (or they don't get a waiver or just ignore it!). That said, I have had interviews at the GS14/15 level for DoD, but now I'm at NASA, not likely to jump ship to a worse place to work!



Based on my experience with the DoD they will do whatever they please, with the excuse of "that's not how we interpreted it". I am so happy to be leaving the DoD.
Hired 2015  
#9 Posted : Monday, June 29, 2020 4:07:18 PM(UTC)
Hired 2015

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 5/17/2016(UTC)
Posts: 256

Thanks: 23 times
Was thanked: 27 time(s) in 24 post(s)
The balance is tipping for me that the private sector pays more where my education and experience has not gotten me anywhere at my agency. I've never had any job where I was stuck in place for almost 5 years.




GWPDA  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, July 1, 2020 6:00:08 AM(UTC)
GWPDA

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 2/26/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,490

Thanks: 251 times
Was thanked: 525 time(s) in 437 post(s)
The goal of the "EO" is to grease the way to return to the spoils system. Without verifiable educational or similar credentials, a patron can slide their favorite into place on the basis of some undefined 'experience'. This is the intention, and it will be withdrawn.
TheRealOrange  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, July 1, 2020 6:41:19 AM(UTC)
TheRealOrange

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 5/22/2011(UTC)
Posts: 798

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 157 time(s) in 136 post(s)
Originally Posted by: quicksilver Go to Quoted Post
What do you think and will this be in effect when it was signed? How long do you think the current hiring will change to this new regulation?

Link below for the signing of federal hiring process to hire based on skills/knowledge vs degree reqs.

https://www.govexec.com/...l-hiring-process/166471/

I have made dozens of hiring selections in my career, and except for student intern positions, I have always considered experience first. Rarely has education been a consideration when applicants have years of experience. Yes, education is verified by HR when there is a positive education requirement, since it is an eligibility requirement. But, once that verification is done, experience has always been the most valuable factor. When two candidates are very close, education could be a deciding factor, but I have rarely seen instances of that. So, I agree with frankgonzalez that Experience+Education > Experience > Education, and I doubt the E.O. will change much at all in the hiring process (at least at the agencies where I have been involved in hiring).
djp  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, July 1, 2020 8:27:13 AM(UTC)

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 7/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,137

Thanks: 4 times
Was thanked: 155 time(s) in 152 post(s)
Originally Posted by: TheRealOrange Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: quicksilver Go to Quoted Post
What do you think and will this be in effect when it was signed? How long do you think the current hiring will change to this new regulation?

Link below for the signing of federal hiring process to hire based on skills/knowledge vs degree reqs.

https://www.govexec.com/...l-hiring-process/166471/

I have made dozens of hiring selections in my career, and except for student intern positions, I have always considered experience first. Rarely has education been a consideration when applicants have years of experience. Yes, education is verified by HR when there is a positive education requirement, since it is an eligibility requirement. But, once that verification is done, experience has always been the most valuable factor. When two candidates are very close, education could be a deciding factor, but I have rarely seen instances of that. So, I agree with frankgonzalez that Experience+Education > Experience > Education, and I doubt the E.O. will change much at all in the hiring process (at least at the agencies where I have been involved in hiring).



When I looked at applicants one thing I saw some may think is a positive but I view as a negative...

Getting degrees from for profit colleges.

Rss Feed  Atom Feed
Users browsing this topic
Guest
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.


This page was generated in 0.459 seconds.