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Department of Defense


The Department of Defense (DoD) is charged with coordinating and supervising all agencies and functions of the government relating directly to national security and the United States armed forces. The mission of the Department of Defense is to provide the military forces needed to deter war and to protect the security of our country.

The Department of Defense is America's oldest and largest government agency -tracing its roots back to pre-Revolutionary times. Today, the Department is not only in charge of the military, but it also employs a civilian force of thousands. With over 1.4 million men and women on active duty, and 718,000 civilian personnel, DoD is the nation's largest employer. Another 1.1 million serve in the National Guard and Reserve forces. More than 2 million military retirees and their family members receive benefits.

Perhaps you are working for the DoD or interested in working for the DoD. Here is a forum to share your experience with the DoD.
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Endless Summer  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, July 1, 2020 12:39:58 AM(UTC)
Endless Summer

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OK, without going through my whole tale of woe let me just update you in case anyone is being yanked around by lying HR/CPAC types like I was.

I took a position in Korea. It turned out to be a mistake.
Got an offer to a job stateside, EOD was 6 months after my arrival in Korea.
HR/CPAC told me I would have to repay all costs associated with my PCS because I signed a Transfer Agreement agreeing to serve 12 months.
I pointed out that the requirement was for 12 months in the Federal Government Service, not to the Department of the Army.
They said that wasn't the way they interpreted the rule.
When I fought, they said I would have to apply for a waiver.
I applied for the waiver, which was just granted.

So. here's where the lying bast@rds were off the rails. Below are the actual cases. The CBCA is the Civilian Board of Contract Appeals, which has jurisdiction over Government and DoD civilian issues related to travel and relocation pay. the GSBCA is the predecessor to the CBCA, and the Court of Claims is self explanatory.

You can review CBCA decisions going back to 2007 here https://cbca.gov/

But here's the relevant stuff...

APPLICABLE STATUTES, REGULATIONS, AND CASES
CBCA 460-RELO MARILYN FOURNIER (2007) The Board stated:
In deciding whether an agency could by agreement require a transferred employee to remain in the service of a specific agency, rather than simply in Government service, the United States Court of Claims explored the meaning of the term “Government service”:

The statute is clear and unambiguous on its face; however, we note from its legislative history that the requirement for remaining in Federal service was submitted in a report by the Bureau of the Budget which reads in part as follows:
In order to assure that the moving expenses are not paid to employees who do not intend to continue working for the Government after they have been moved, the bill provides that employees must agree in writing to remain in Government service for at least 1 year after they have moved . . . .
. . . .
Section 5721(4) [of title 5 U.S.C.] for the purpose of the subchapter and of § 5724(i) defines “Government” to mean the Government of the United States; a fortiori, to remain in “Government service” requires only that the employee remain in the service of the Government of the United States for twelve months after his transfer.

GSBCA 16612-RELO NANCY C. JOHNSON (2005) the GSBCA found that:
As CIFA recognizes, both the statute and the service agreement require only that Dr. Johnson remain in government service for twelve months after her transfer, and that Dr. Johnson's transfer to the Capitol Police does not violate either the statute or the express terms of the agreement. Finn v. United States, 428 F.2d 828 (Ct. Cl. 1970)

CBCA 1710-RELO EDWARD C WOLAHAN (2010) the Board held that
The service agreement concerns only the situation in which an employee transfers but leaves government service within twelve months of the move. ...

Finn v. United States, 428 F.2d 828, 831-32 (Ct. Cl. 1970).
Section 5721(4), for the purpose of the subchapter and of § 5724(i) defines "Government" to mean the Government of the United States; a fortiori, to remain in "Government service" requires only that the employee remain in the service of the Government of the United States for twelve months after his transfer. This is the limit of the contractual authority granted an agency under the statute, and the agency cannot by contract further limit a transferred employee to "agency service" as contrasted to "Government service." Within the purview and intent of this statute, Congress clearly did not intend that "Government service" was to be regarded as synonymous with "agency service."

THE JOINT TRAVEL REGULATIONS (JTR) p. 5G 13 (2020)
Acceptable Reasons for Release from a Tour of Duty

C. Released to Continue Employment. A civilian employee, serving under a service agreement who transfers to another DoD Component or Agency, must be released from the tour of duty requirement in the civilian employee’s current agreement, unless transferring to another DoD Component within 12 months of reporting to the PDS on a PCS move (see par. 053706-A). If the transfer involves PCS allowances to a new PDS, the gaining activity is responsible for all PCS costs. The civilian employee must continue in Government service for at least 12 months after he or she reported at the PDS where departing to satisfy the obligation for costs incurred by the losing activity in moving the civilian employee to that PDS.

thanks 1 user thanked Endless Summer for this useful post.
JDSIII on 7/1/2020(UTC)
Al329  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, July 1, 2020 2:53:13 AM(UTC)
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CPAC is not responsible for their Techs lies.

How they see it.

Had a friend get a final job offer with salary listed. Great, he packed out from OCONUS to CONUS. Two week before report date, the CPAC tech emails saying opps they had made mistake in the salary... its actually 20k less. He pushed back saying this was the offer I accepted... head of CPAC said that was the mistakes of the individual tech .. we are not responsible for that. Now mind you he already shipped all household goods and cars. Stuck

I have other cases of people told they get LQA ... feet on ground they are told oh no sorry my bad.

Glad to hear you were able to get a waiver. Yes from my understanding and talking to people, 12 months in the component is required. Taking another job within DoD would mean you didnt leave. I can understand if you left Civil Service, they would want the money back.

Once again... 5 year rule. I'm sure there are some who would do 30 years in Korea happily. Would have saved that unit moving you over.. only to move you back again!
Endless Summer  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, July 1, 2020 3:22:57 AM(UTC)
Endless Summer

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Originally Posted by: Al329 Go to Quoted Post
CPAC is not responsible for their Techs lies.

How they see it.

Had a friend get a final job offer with salary listed. Great, he packed out from OCONUS to CONUS. Two week before report date, the CPAC tech emails saying opps they had made mistake in the salary... its actually 20k less. He pushed back saying this was the offer I accepted... head of CPAC said that was the mistakes of the individual tech .. we are not responsible for that. Now mind you he already shipped all household goods and cars. Stuck

I have other cases of people told they get LQA ... feet on ground they are told oh no sorry my bad.

Glad to hear you were able to get a waiver. Yes from my understanding and talking to people, 12 months in the component is required. Taking another job within DoD would mean you didnt leave. I can understand if you left Civil Service, they would want the money back.

Once again... 5 year rule. I'm sure there are some who would do 30 years in Korea happily. Would have saved that unit moving you over.. only to move you back again!


No, your post illustrates everything I'm trying to tell you. CPAC is not the final arbitrator. They want you to believe that. They told me "This is how it is, suck it" But I knew better. Take your friend, what he could have done is exactly what I did. Find another job and leave as soon as possible. Nothing the DoD can do to make him pay. Likewise with LQA, if your orders state you get it, you get it. They want to deny it, they can face the music from a board of judges.

The waiver is bullsh!t and you and everyone you've been talking to has bought the CPAC line of bullsh!t. The DD-1617 as well as the LAW says 12 months in federal government service and that does not mean 12 months OCONUS or 12 months working for the DoD. Read the quote I posted from Flynn vs United States, it's as clear as can be.

Believe me, once I'm clear of this place I'm going to be sending letters to everyone but the Easter Bunny to demand these idiots stop telling these lies.

It's gonna be biblical...
Al329  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, July 1, 2020 3:31:01 AM(UTC)
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No I agree it states it pretty clear in the cases you listed.

Just a lot easier for you to get the waiver and not have to fight it.

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