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Fedchick86  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, February 23, 2021 4:46:49 AM(UTC)
Fedchick86

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I just started a couple of months ago as a recent graduate for GSA as a Building Management Specialist. I really did give this position a chance but it is not for me. I’m more of an introvert but basically wanted to get my foot into the government anyway that I could. I was told to just take any position and then switch into something I like later on but I’m in my mid 30’s now and I just want to be in a position that I can see myself in for a long time and this isn’t it. My degree is in business admin. so I’m interested in HR, project management, program management/analyst positions. My question is this, do I complete my first year in the recent grad program THEN start applying for new positions, or do I start reapplying for other recent grad positions now? I will currently only qualify for recent grad jobs until 5/2022, so after that I won’t be able to get into the roles I would like because I have no experience in those fields. My background is all retail so if I don’t qualify as a recent grad, I won’t be able to get the job. I love GSA and don’t want to leave the agency so I’m not sure if I could apply for other positions within the agency while I’m on my one year probation? I’m basically scared to complete the program and be stuck in this role because I won’t have recent grad status anymore, and I won’t qualify by experience for any new role, what do I do? Will it be hard to transition into another role after my probation is up with 0 years of experience? Should I just stick it out for a year? Is now the time to make the switch? I don’t want to put a target on my back either as a job hopper but I don’t know what to do. I’m grateful for this opportunity and I love GSA but not this job, please help!
FatHappyCat  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, February 23, 2021 9:47:17 AM(UTC)

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I'll give you the advice that my mentor gave me: the best time to look for a job is when you have a job.

This especially holds true in the federal government where it is almost a given that everyone is looking for their next job. In the private sector, promotion comes from your performance and how your company views their employees. In the feds, there is no promotion potential regardless of how you perform unless you apply for one.

Right now you have nothing - you really don't have any options to leave unless you actually have something to leave to. Apply for anything and everything you want and then worry about whether to stay or not when you have that job offer on the table.

On a related matter - GSA has been absolutely the best agency I've worked for. My only real gripe with them is that they are generally cheap with their grades. In region 2, there were maybe a handful of 13-15s; when I left for FEMA, every other person was a 13-15.
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Fedchick86 on 2/23/2021(UTC)
Fedchick86  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, February 23, 2021 10:46:14 AM(UTC)
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Thank you so much for your advice. I was worried because I’m a GS-7 recent grad on a ladder with a promotion potential of 12. I was wondering if it was in good practice to apply for other recent grad jobs while on probation? I didn’t know if I should finish the year first then apply to other jobs or not? I just don’t want to be stuck in this role I don’t like long term and I don’t want to go back to college if I didn’t have to. If i get hired in as a fed, is it hard to later change job series with no experience?
SpaceBall  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, February 23, 2021 11:38:35 AM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: Fedchick86 Go to Quoted Post
Thank you so much for your advice. I was worried because I’m a GS-7 recent grad on a ladder with a promotion potential of 12. I was wondering if it was in good practice to apply for other recent grad jobs while on probation? I didn’t know if I should finish the year first then apply to other jobs or not? I just don’t want to be stuck in this role I don’t like long term and I don’t want to go back to college if I didn’t have to. If i get hired in as a fed, is it hard to later change job series with no experience?


So you are an 1176? That is a difficult position to get people into, which is probably why they made it a 7/12 ladder. Here is my advice, if it isn't for you, you should find another position now. If you stick with the ladder all the way to 12, you will more than likely be stuck as an 1176 because they are hard to fill positions. And HR will more than likely not fit you for anything else, especially when your experience as one continues to grow.

Myself as an example, I am a 2210 (IT Specialist). I've been doing IT work for about 30 years now, and I would prefer not to do IT work anymore. But I cannot shift into anything else, even trying to take a lower graded position. I have 3 college degrees, none of which are IT related, and graduate work that is not IT related, and I still do not get picked up for anything other than 2210's. I am a GS-13 about to step into GS-14 territory, but still as a 2210.

Don't get me wrong, its nice to have that to lean on. When I look for another opportunity, I usually only need to apply once to any 2210 to get the job. But after almost 30 years, I can almost predict how an agency operates before I even step into the job. Interviews usually go into me telling them how to operate, and I end up interviewing them.
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Fedchick86 on 2/24/2021(UTC)
FatHappyCat  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, February 23, 2021 5:40:56 PM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: Fedchick86 Go to Quoted Post
If i get hired in as a fed, is it hard to later change job series with no experience?


No, but as Space said right above me, you most likely won't be able to keep your grade/salary.

I'm in security (0080) as a 14 right now. I'd love to get into HR, but I'd certainly never meet the requirements of what an HR 14 should be doing and I'm certainly not willing to start out again as a 7/9/11. That really is the trap, the more you stay in one field, the harder it is to transfer out w/o taking a cut.

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Fedchick86 on 2/25/2021(UTC)
someoldguy  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, February 24, 2021 2:14:31 AM(UTC)
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I've met a number of people who managed to change career fields. Usually it started while they were still in their original series and got a chance to do something different. They found out they liked it and made a change. I don't know too much about GSA but it seems like building management is one of their core missions. That should give you a chance to get exposed to a wide range of jobs.

The other responses make good points about the difficulty of changing after you get to be too senior but I don't think you have to worry about that for a few years yet.

Did you find out if a current federal employee is even eligible for "recent grad" positions? Anyway, time is on your side! Learn the most of your current job and keep your eyes open for new opportunities.

Edited by user Wednesday, February 24, 2021 2:15:18 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

DISCLAIMER: You read it on an open internet forum :)
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Fedchick86 on 2/25/2021(UTC)
Fedchick86  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, February 24, 2021 4:46:30 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: SpaceBall Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Fedchick86 Go to Quoted Post
Thank you so much for your advice. I was worried because I’m a GS-7 recent grad on a ladder with a promotion potential of 12. I was wondering if it was in good practice to apply for other recent grad jobs while on probation? I didn’t know if I should finish the year first then apply to other jobs or not? I just don’t want to be stuck in this role I don’t like long term and I don’t want to go back to college if I didn’t have to. If i get hired in as a fed, is it hard to later change job series with no experience?


So you are an 1176? That is a difficult position to get people into, which is probably why they made it a 7/12 ladder. Here is my advice, if it isn't for you, you should find another position now. If you stick with the ladder all the way to 12, you will more than likely be stuck as an 1176 because they are hard to fill positions. And HR will more than likely not fit you for anything else, especially when your experience as one continues to grow.

Myself as an example, I am a 2210 (IT Specialist). I've been doing IT work for about 30 years now, and I would prefer not to do IT work anymore. But I cannot shift into anything else, even trying to take a lower graded position. I have 3 college degrees, none of which are IT related, and graduate work that is not IT related, and I still do not get picked up for anything other than 2210's. I am a GS-13 about to step into GS-14 territory, but still as a 2210.

Don't get me wrong, its nice to have that to lean on. When I look for another opportunity, I usually only need to apply once to any 2210 to get the job. But after almost 30 years, I can almost predict how an agency operates before I even step into the job. Interviews usually go into me telling them how to operate, and I end up interviewing them.


Thank you so much for your advice. Yes, it’s an 1176. I kind of figured it was a hard position to fill because they didn’t even tell me the on call requirement until I actually got on the job. And I’m on call at all times even if I’m on vacation and that’s not what I signed up for. I feel bad about leaving so abruptly but like you said, I don’t want to be stuck in this role. I will start applying for other recent grad jobs now, I’m just worried that they will tell my current supervisors or that it will look bad considering I’ve only been doing this for 2.5 months. I don’t feel they gave an accurate depiction of what the job entails during the interview or in the job description. Here I am brand new and a guy is leaving to go to another role and they are having me replace him to run his building in the middle of a pandemic! They are pressuring me to go into the office to see how things are done, this is not what the job description said. I was supposed to assist the manager, not be a building manager in 2 months! You think I can get into another role with the same agency or do you think I will be blackballed from GSA and should apply at other agencies? I really would like another recent grad ladder position if at all possible. You seem super knowledgeable, I hope you eventually break out of 2210 and get into a new role, I get it, after doing something for so long and mastering it, you’re ready for something new.
Fedchick86  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, February 24, 2021 4:55:04 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: someoldguy Go to Quoted Post
I've met a number of people who managed to change career fields. Usually it started while they were still in their original series and got a chance to do something different. They found out they liked it and made a change. I don't know too much about GSA but it seems like building management is one of their core missions. That should give you a chance to get exposed to a wide range of jobs.

The other responses make good points about the difficulty of changing after you get to be too senior but I don't think you have to worry about that for a few years yet.

Did you find out if a current federal employee is even eligible for "recent grad" positions? Anyway, time is on your side! Learn the most of your current job and keep your eyes open for new opportunities.


Thank you so much for your response. I looked in the Pathways handbook and it says I can change agencies while in my first year although I really would like to stay with GSA just in a different role. I can tell that this position has quite a bit of turnover already. I’ve only been in this role for 2.5 months and I’m already being told that I have to take over a building because a guy is leaving and getting into a new role. I want to start applying for recent grad jobs I just don’t know how bad it may look that I am leaving so soon. I will apply to other roles and hope that I can land one, I just know that this role is completely different than what I thought it would be and does not match the job description. I’m supposed to assist the manager not be a building manager right now, plus I will be on call 24/7, definitely not what I signed up for.
Fedchick86  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, February 24, 2021 4:58:49 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: FatHappyCat Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Fedchick86 Go to Quoted Post
If i get hired in as a fed, is it hard to later change job series with no experience?


No, but as Space said right above me, you most likely won't be able to keep your grade/salary.

I'm in security (0080) as a 14 right now. I'd love to get into HR, but I'd certainly never meet the requirements of what an HR 14 should be doing and I'm certainly not willing to start out again as a 7/9/11. That really is the trap, the more you stay in one field, the harder it is to transfer out w/o taking a cut.



Thank you, I’m going to start looking for other roles now then. The biggest thing is that what they want me to do is not meeting what was said in the job description. If they had told me that I would be on call 24/7 and would be expected to take over a building right away I would have never accepted the position. Now it feels like I have to start all the way over with applications, interviews, and reference checks, not super happy about that but it is what it is.
GWPDA  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, February 24, 2021 6:13:32 AM(UTC)
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Something to consider -- federal jobs are clumped together in 'families', and transferring within the family is going to be a lot easier than moving outside to another family. In the case of 1100, the basic description is

"1100 – BUSINESS AND INDUSTRY GROUP
This group includes all classes of positions the duties of which are to advise on, administer, supervise, or perform work pertaining to and requiring a knowledge of business and trade practices, characteristics and use of equipment, products, or property, or industrial production methods and processes, including the conduct of investigations and studies; the collection, analysis, and dissemination of information; the establishment and maintenance of contacts with industry and commerce; the provision of advisory services; the examination and appraisement of merchandise or property; and the administration of regulatory provisions and controls."

If you go to the OPM Occupational Handbook, https://www.opm.gov/poli...occupationalhandbook.pdf and see what the 1100 group has to offer you'll be better situated to respond to the kind of announcement you really want to do. You've already cracked the code - now you should be able to fine tune your objectives.

Edited by user Wednesday, February 24, 2021 6:14:51 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Fedchick86 on 2/25/2021(UTC)
SpaceBall  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, February 24, 2021 10:28:13 AM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: Fedchick86 Go to Quoted Post
Thank you so much for your advice. Yes, it’s an 1176. I kind of figured it was a hard position to fill because they didn’t even tell me the on call requirement until I actually got on the job. And I’m on call at all times even if I’m on vacation and that’s not what I signed up for. I feel bad about leaving so abruptly but like you said, I don’t want to be stuck in this role. I will start applying for other recent grad jobs now, I’m just worried that they will tell my current supervisors or that it will look bad considering I’ve only been doing this for 2.5 months. I don’t feel they gave an accurate depiction of what the job entails during the interview or in the job description. Here I am brand new and a guy is leaving to go to another role and they are having me replace him to run his building in the middle of a pandemic! They are pressuring me to go into the office to see how things are done, this is not what the job description said. I was supposed to assist the manager, not be a building manager in 2 months! You think I can get into another role with the same agency or do you think I will be blackballed from GSA and should apply at other agencies? I really would like another recent grad ladder position if at all possible. You seem super knowledgeable, I hope you eventually break out of 2210 and get into a new role, I get it, after doing something for so long and mastering it, you’re ready for something new.


I have to say, you've piqued my interest, why are you on call? Has it been explained to you? I have worked at an 24/7/365 ultra-hi-tempo installation, and the building manager wasn't on call. What are they expecting you to do when you are called in? Call someone else? Your the building manager, so you make sure the fire suppression systems are inspected, the toilets are flushing, the electricity is functioning properly, HVAC is blowing cold/hot air, etc. You don't fix those things yourself, you contact outside entities for that. If there is an emergency, you don't call the building manager.

Other thing I notice is they are doing exactly what every organization I have worked at does. They hire someone into a 7/12 ladder position starting as a GS-7 and expect them to do GS-12 work. I've had enough arguments around the table to stop doing this. Being that you are new to the government, look at what GWPDA posted, the Occupational Handbook. In there you will also see links to the position classification guides. That is how they determine positions are graded. Yours is https://www.opm.gov/poli...tandards/1100/gs1176.pdf

First thing you notice there is no GS-1176-07, so that immediately tells me entry level. Second thing you should notice is grades are effectively determined by the square footage you manage as a baseline. How much square footage has been assigned to you?

I did find a generic Army Position Description for a GS-1176-07, and as expected its entry level:
https://acpol2.army.mil/...CemqZYgGC7hLBlaYabk6M%3D

The part that should stand out, "Incumbent works under closer supervision and works in a developmental capacity performing assignments and completing training, both of which are aimed to prepare the incumbent to gain the knowledge and skills necessary to perform the duties outlined in the aforementioned job description. The incumbent receives progressively more assignments as experience and training are received to the next higher/target level position of Building Management Specialist GS-1176-09.". No where does it say, manage buildings. The observant will notice you work for GSA, not the Army. These are drafted based upon OPM guidance. If anyone can produce an OPM document that identifies what a GS-1176-07 should be doing, I would like to read it.

I would request a sit down chat with your supervisor to identify exactly what is expected, especially for the on-call part, because I am not sure what they expect you to do. It seems like an unnecessary extra step if there is an emergency, when they should be placing the call themselves. I could be completely off the mark, and there is something that makes the building manager an emergency essential position. But whether its a fire, power outage, or security breach, the building manager was never on any call list that I've ever seen or drafted.
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Fedchick86 on 2/25/2021(UTC)
Fedchick86  
#12 Posted : Thursday, February 25, 2021 7:57:15 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: SpaceBall Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Fedchick86 Go to Quoted Post
Thank you so much for your advice. Yes, it’s an 1176. I kind of figured it was a hard position to fill because they didn’t even tell me the on call requirement until I actually got on the job. And I’m on call at all times even if I’m on vacation and that’s not what I signed up for. I feel bad about leaving so abruptly but like you said, I don’t want to be stuck in this role. I will start applying for other recent grad jobs now, I’m just worried that they will tell my current supervisors or that it will look bad considering I’ve only been doing this for 2.5 months. I don’t feel they gave an accurate depiction of what the job entails during the interview or in the job description. Here I am brand new and a guy is leaving to go to another role and they are having me replace him to run his building in the middle of a pandemic! They are pressuring me to go into the office to see how things are done, this is not what the job description said. I was supposed to assist the manager, not be a building manager in 2 months! You think I can get into another role with the same agency or do you think I will be blackballed from GSA and should apply at other agencies? I really would like another recent grad ladder position if at all possible. You seem super knowledgeable, I hope you eventually break out of 2210 and get into a new role, I get it, after doing something for so long and mastering it, you’re ready for something new.


I have to say, you've piqued my interest, why are you on call? Has it been explained to you? I have worked at an 24/7/365 ultra-hi-tempo installation, and the building manager wasn't on call. What are they expecting you to do when you are called in? Call someone else? Your the building manager, so you make sure the fire suppression systems are inspected, the toilets are flushing, the electricity is functioning properly, HVAC is blowing cold/hot air, etc. You don't fix those things yourself, you contact outside entities for that. If there is an emergency, you don't call the building manager.

Other thing I notice is they are doing exactly what every organization I have worked at does. They hire someone into a 7/12 ladder position starting as a GS-7 and expect them to do GS-12 work. I've had enough arguments around the table to stop doing this. Being that you are new to the government, look at what GWPDA posted, the Occupational Handbook. In there you will also see links to the position classification guides. That is how they determine positions are graded. Yours is https://www.opm.gov/poli...tandards/1100/gs1176.pdf

First thing you notice there is no GS-1176-07, so that immediately tells me entry level. Second thing you should notice is grades are effectively determined by the square footage you manage as a baseline. How much square footage has been assigned to you?

I did find a generic Army Position Description for a GS-1176-07, and as expected its entry level:
https://acpol2.army.mil/...CemqZYgGC7hLBlaYabk6M%3D

The part that should stand out, "Incumbent works under closer supervision and works in a developmental capacity performing assignments and completing training, both of which are aimed to prepare the incumbent to gain the knowledge and skills necessary to perform the duties outlined in the aforementioned job description. The incumbent receives progressively more assignments as experience and training are received to the next higher/target level position of Building Management Specialist GS-1176-09.". No where does it say, manage buildings. The observant will notice you work for GSA, not the Army. These are drafted based upon OPM guidance. If anyone can produce an OPM document that identifies what a GS-1176-07 should be doing, I would like to read it.

I would request a sit down chat with your supervisor to identify exactly what is expected, especially for the on-call part, because I am not sure what they expect you to do. It seems like an unnecessary extra step if there is an emergency, when they should be placing the call themselves. I could be completely off the mark, and there is something that makes the building manager an emergency essential position. But whether its a fire, power outage, or security breach, the building manager was never on any call list that I've ever seen or drafted.


Thank you for all of your help. So basically a guy left and they are transitioning for me to take over his position. It was like my 2nd day at work and they were already telling everyone in all of my meetings that I was his replacement. I found a job post that is just like the one I applied for. This one was for a canceled job because I couldn’t find the post I applied for, but everything is the same https://www.usajobs.gov/...ob/ViewDetails/592933200 I don’t like how the job post makes it seem like I will be assisting the supervisor, yet here I am a property manager and it makes no sense. So far my supervisor has been helping me and has been with me the entire time but he’s saying that soon, I’ll be in the building by myself running it on my own, but it is a relatively small building in told, although I do not know the square feet. This is definitely not what I signed up for because I wouldn’t have taken the position. As far as the call goes, I’m not on call at the moment but he’s saying eventually I will be and that I have to be within 2 hours of the facility, all things I was not told during the interview process or the job announcement. I’m on call basically like you said to make sure that I can contact the contractors needed to get the work done. I was told that it is extremely rare to have to physically go into the office myself but that it’s possible. I had no idea that this was a high turnover position but I see why it is now, there’s a lot to the job. I plan on sitting my supervisor down next week and ask him about what’s expected of me etc. like you suggested. In the meantime I will start applying for more recent grad positions. I’m not sure if I need to upload my SF50 for the new jobs I apply for or not since I’m technically still on probation. The whole federal job hiring process is very confusing and I feel like there is still so much I don’t know or understand. For now I will go to work, do my best, and hope another opportunity comes up for me soon. Like you said, nothing in the job description mentions building manager as a level 7. I’m not sure if the link I posted worked or not but there is a recent graduate position for 1176 on usajobs.com if you wanted to check it out, thank you for your time.

Edited by user Thursday, February 25, 2021 8:16:57 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Fedchick86  
#13 Posted : Thursday, February 25, 2021 8:01:15 PM(UTC)
Fedchick86

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Originally Posted by: GWPDA Go to Quoted Post
Something to consider -- federal jobs are clumped together in 'families', and transferring within the family is going to be a lot easier than moving outside to another family. In the case of 1100, the basic description is

"1100 – BUSINESS AND INDUSTRY GROUP
This group includes all classes of positions the duties of which are to advise on, administer, supervise, or perform work pertaining to and requiring a knowledge of business and trade practices, characteristics and use of equipment, products, or property, or industrial production methods and processes, including the conduct of investigations and studies; the collection, analysis, and dissemination of information; the establishment and maintenance of contacts with industry and commerce; the provision of advisory services; the examination and appraisement of merchandise or property; and the administration of regulatory provisions and controls."

If you go to the OPM Occupational Handbook, https://www.opm.gov/poli...occupationalhandbook.pdf and see what the 1100 group has to offer you'll be better situated to respond to the kind of announcement you really want to do. You've already cracked the code - now you should be able to fine tune your objectives.


Thank you so much for your insight and help. I’m actually looking to do jobs that are completely different like HR, project manager, or program manager. I’m hoping that it won’t be too tough of a transition into the new role. I did look at the link you sent and looked at similar positions. If I have to stay in this job family then I understand for sure, I just don’t want to be in this current series. It’s a tricky situation but I’m hoping that I can find something else within the year before my probation is up.
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