Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Federal Career Planning and Development

Are you looking to get promoted?
Maybe a change in your federal career?
Need tips on resume writing to land a federal job?
Or how to increase your salary or get a pay raise?

Join this active discussion with others climbing the same challenging career ladder.

Consider ordering some helpful resources or read today's top news stories on federal employee pay, benefits, retirement, job rights and other workplace issues by visiting FederalDaily.com.

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Travis  
#1 Posted : Monday, November 1, 2021 4:09:11 PM(UTC)
Travis

Rank: Newbie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 11/1/2021(UTC)
Posts: 2
United States
Location: AZ

Hi All,

First post here. I am a nurse at an IHS facility, have fulfilled almost 1 year as GS10 step 10 position (nurse in emergency room). The case manager resigned back in Feb, I happen to be certified with 5 yrs experience in case management and still able to work on the floor with 10+ years of ER experience. I.e., I'm a good fit for the job and what the department needs and my supervisor wants me to remain in the position. The case management position was left vacant in Feb as said. I have been working as the interim case manager since 2/16/21. This is a GS11 position (again, I'm currently GS10 step 10). I have applied for the position 4 times now since Feb. The first three times, I have been denied based on Indian Preference. I.e., my application never makes it past HR. This time, the position closed on 10/29/21 and I haven't heard the results of that yet, but suspect it will be the same.

My question: are there any particular rules or regulations that govern how long an employee can work in a higher GS position without getting paid?? I spoke briefly with the EEO officer here and she mentioned something about 6 months?? Where would I look for the policy, if there is one?

Thanks!
Travis
frankgonzalez  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, November 2, 2021 3:26:25 AM(UTC)
frankgonzalez

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 8/8/2008(UTC)
Posts: 5,981

Thanks: 108 times
Was thanked: 1183 time(s) in 946 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Travis Go to Quoted Post
Hi All,

First post here. I am a nurse at an IHS facility, have fulfilled almost 1 year as GS10 step 10 position (nurse in emergency room). The case manager resigned back in Feb, I happen to be certified with 5 yrs experience in case management and still able to work on the floor with 10+ years of ER experience. I.e., I'm a good fit for the job and what the department needs and my supervisor wants me to remain in the position. The case management position was left vacant in Feb as said. I have been working as the interim case manager since 2/16/21. This is a GS11 position (again, I'm currently GS10 step 10). I have applied for the position 4 times now since Feb. The first three times, I have been denied based on Indian Preference. I.e., my application never makes it past HR. This time, the position closed on 10/29/21 and I haven't heard the results of that yet, but suspect it will be the same.

My question: are there any particular rules or regulations that govern how long an employee can work in a higher GS position without getting paid?? I spoke briefly with the EEO officer here and she mentioned something about 6 months?? Where would I look for the policy, if there is one?

Thanks!
Travis
There appears to be more than one issue.

How can you be blocked by preference if no-one is hired? (if you are still doing the job, then no-one must have been hired). If this is the case, then perhaps you have an EEO case or a grievance to be filed.

On the other hand, if you are doing the job, request a desk audit ASAP...you may find yourself with the position by default...or you remind them that this is higher graded work, and while you are capable of doing it, you cannot continue to do so without the pay and grade. (I also suggest you start looking for other positions if you are able to do so, because there may be more going on that you are aware of).

You should have voted Cthulu...the greatest of all Evils
Travis  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, November 2, 2021 7:28:10 AM(UTC)
Travis

Rank: Newbie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 11/1/2021(UTC)
Posts: 2
United States
Location: AZ

Originally Posted by: frankgonzalez Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Travis Go to Quoted Post
Hi All,

First post here. I am a nurse at an IHS facility, have fulfilled almost 1 year as GS10 step 10 position (nurse in emergency room). The case manager resigned back in Feb, I happen to be certified with 5 yrs experience in case management and still able to work on the floor with 10+ years of ER experience. I.e., I'm a good fit for the job and what the department needs and my supervisor wants me to remain in the position. The case management position was left vacant in Feb as said. I have been working as the interim case manager since 2/16/21. This is a GS11 position (again, I'm currently GS10 step 10). I have applied for the position 4 times now since Feb. The first three times, I have been denied based on Indian Preference. I.e., my application never makes it past HR. This time, the position closed on 10/29/21 and I haven't heard the results of that yet, but suspect it will be the same.

My question: are there any particular rules or regulations that govern how long an employee can work in a higher GS position without getting paid?? I spoke briefly with the EEO officer here and she mentioned something about 6 months?? Where would I look for the policy, if there is one?

Thanks!
Travis
There appears to be more than one issue.

How can you be blocked by preference if no-one is hired? (if you are still doing the job, then no-one must have been hired). If this is the case, then perhaps you have an EEO case or a grievance to be filed.

On the other hand, if you are doing the job, request a desk audit ASAP...you may find yourself with the position by default...or you remind them that this is higher graded work, and while you are capable of doing it, you cannot continue to do so without the pay and grade. (I also suggest you start looking for other positions if you are able to do so, because there may be more going on that you are aware of).



Thank you for your reply. The desk audit - is that an agency specific process or is this for any federal agency? What is the general idea / goal behind a desk audit?

As far as being blocked by IP, this is my understanding. A little background, first. I have worked for the department for a year back in 2011 as a contractor (they know me) and returned May 2020 again as a contractor floor nurse in the ER (signed on permanent staff November 2020). When the prior case manager resigned, it was a very logical move for me to take over in the interim, because if someone isn't doing the work then ultimately, it's to the detriment of the patients so she stepped out and I immediately stepped in. I was already here working in the department, know the department, know the community, I'm certified and love case management and can also serve as a resource on the floor during times of short-staffing (I can actually take care of critical patients like the rest of the staff - this is a SIGNIFICANT factor).

Anyhow - my supervisor receives the applicants from HR that claim Indian preference each time, but my name is not on the roster. My application does not make it past HR. She interviews the applicants she receives, denies them because they aren't qualified (can't or aren't willing to work the floor in the ER during times of high surge volume, short staffing or care for critical patients) and she wants me to remain in the position because I gladly do all those things. Then HR re-opens the position weeks later "to solicit additional applicants" and the process repeats. Unfortunately, it seems she is sort of powerless against Indian preference. Just a statement of principle: the money truly isn't the issue. I actually love the job I'm doing and where I'm at - enough to take a big pay cut to sign on permanent staff. It's a great position with great co-workers. I'm also fine with returning to the floor to work as a staff nurse as well. If it doesn't work out then it's been fun while it lasted. I'm pretty neutral about this.

My point in posting is for knowledge: is this how things are SUPPOSED to go? Can this go on like this essentially forever? The BIG question: is there actually a time limit that an employee can work in a higher grade GS position without receiving the higher pay (the EEO officer here mentioned something about 6 months)? If we are all playing by the rules (ESPECIALLY HR) then I have no issues. I do NOT want to make things difficult for my supervisor either, as I truly feel she has done everything in her power to remedy this situation, to the point of initially refusing to interview a few applicants. Ultimately I think HR forced her to. I know Indian preference upsets her (she can say that because she is native - I, however have no personal opinion one way or another on the topic), but it seems that might be the bigger force at play here. Not sure how IP ties into all this either. Very confusing....
frankgonzalez  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, November 2, 2021 9:40:13 AM(UTC)
frankgonzalez

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 8/8/2008(UTC)
Posts: 5,981

Thanks: 108 times
Was thanked: 1183 time(s) in 946 post(s)
Ok...a desk audit is something all federal employees can ask for (but it is a double edged sword...if the audit determines the position is wrongly graded, it can go up OR down, so it is something we always advise people to be careful asking for one!).

And, the supervisor can ask for all qualified applicants if the initial group provided with preference are not qualified or reject the roles needed (such as helping with patients, etc) so they can reach someone who is qualified and willing to do the job. HR should not block that request as sometimes resumes are well written but the applicant in no way resembles the person the resume is describing, and in other cases the applicant isn't willing to do the whole job. That would provide the supervisor the justification to bypass preference as continually going to the well for new applicants every time the initial group interviewed doesn't work out means it could be years to fill the position. They need the position filled (hence you doing the work currently), and so need to lean on HR to help them do this hiring process once, and quickly find a hire (if there are qualified non-IP applicants, then if the IP applicants turn out to be non-starters, then they can reach lower). Preference does not permanently block hiring non-preference eligible personnel.

Just my $.02 worth. Maybe an HR guru can step in with some clarity on the HR side of things.
You should have voted Cthulu...the greatest of all Evils
thanks 1 user thanked frankgonzalez for this useful post.
lp on 11/2/2021(UTC)
djp  
#5 Posted : Sunday, November 7, 2021 9:00:29 PM(UTC)

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 7/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,283

Thanks: 5 times
Was thanked: 174 time(s) in 171 post(s)
The issue of them reannouncing the job could be a budget or hiring position priorityissue or other politics going on.

Rss Feed  Atom Feed
Users browsing this topic
Guest
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Powered by YAF 2.1.1 | YAF © 2003-2021, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.332 seconds.