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mtnstyne  
#1 Posted : Monday, November 15, 2021 3:26:11 PM(UTC)
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This post is just to share my thoughts on why (the main reason) I am resigning from the post office in January and my thoughts on why the culture is toxic within the organization.

Bottom line up front, neither the union nor PO management cares about employees, they both (like politicians) only care about furthering their agendas and scoring a win. What is best for the PO or employees is secondary. It's like being a child with shared custody by both parents.

I will be resigning in January after the holidays. I am waiting until then because I care about my fellow employees and we all have holiday plans and if one of us goes away the others will have no time off. It will also allow me to have the annual leave cash out on next years taxes.

The long story. I work as a PTF clerk in a level 18 office. The office had a NTFT and PTF position when I was hired. In Feb 2020 the NTFT clerk retired and the position was in the process of bidding when Post Office management decided to get rid of the NTFT position and require our office to beg for help from surrounding offices. It was now one PTF clerk and an office with around 50 clerk hours. The union decided to grieve the elimination of the NTFT position and that began around May 2020.

From May 2020 to around June 2021 nothing happened, couldn't even reach a union rep and the PO wasn't saying anything. Finally the PM was able to have a PTF position added to the office and a PTF transferred in. Fast forward to today, the grievance is finally being settled and the NTFT position is being granted.

This decision hurts both the current PTFs and the office in general. No one in the office wants the NTFT position but it was made clear by the union that they don't care about what the employees want. That is actually what the steward said who initiated the grievance. They are fighting for the position and the position alone. The best option for the operation of the office is to have 2 PTFs.

Going forward the new NTFT position will go to bid. Only a NTFT can apply for the job, neither PTF is able to bid unless it goes unfilled. If it is filled there will now be a new NTFT and 2 PTF. The PTFs will have to split 15 hours so 7.5 hours each. One is going to try and go 204B, but I will be resigning.

I am the senior PTF so if the job goes unfilled, I will be required to accept it or resign. If I do accept it the other PTF will resign or go 204B because they won't be able to pay bills on 15 hours per week. To be clear, I won't work the NTFT job, it's not what I hired on to do. When I resign the job will have to go to bid again and the other PTF still might not get it.

If I could remain in my current position I would continue to do so, but that is not going to be an option. Unfortunately the most likely end result is that both of the current PTFs will resign from jobs they are happy with so the union can chalk up a win. The PM is going to be left cleaning up the mess. This PM is one of the good ones which I have found to be rare.

As a bonus, I was also told if I end up in the NTFT position I may be incur a debt for the hours I worked during this 20 months because the NTFT position is being back dated and they are paid a lesser hourly rate.

I am a retired army signal and finance officer with 2 decades of leadership experience and a degree in technology management. I simply wanted a part time job to get me out of the house a few times a week but it is no longer worth the headache of being in an organization that lacks leadership and training and fosters such a culture of us vs them (mgt vs union). People don't quit jobs, they quit working for who they can't stand to work for anymore. I think I have been an asset to the post office, but in the end it doesn't matter if my boss wants to keep me or if I want to stay.

Anyway, I don't know if that ramble makes any sense, but wanted to share it. Ok, open the flood gates.
thanks 3 users thanked mtnstyne for this useful post.
CityCarrier2020 on 11/15/2021(UTC), Ihatemanagement on 11/16/2021(UTC), Sockmess on 11/26/2021(UTC)
CityCarrier2020  
#2 Posted : Monday, November 15, 2021 7:48:46 PM(UTC)
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Thank you for your service.
I think you are making the right decision.
You are way to skilled and talented for the PO.
Best of luck on all your future endeavors.
sfclk20  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, November 16, 2021 11:15:31 AM(UTC)
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During the hiring process, our class was informed several times that we have to adjust to their schedule, that our reporting time could change at a moment's notice, and that no accommodation will be made for anyone. Out of 16, about half resigned before the 3rd year due to time changes. It's unfortunate to lose good people, but it's their policy.
Blahblah  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, November 16, 2021 4:22:21 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: mtnstyne Go to Quoted Post
This post is just to share my thoughts on why (the main reason) I am resigning from the post office in January and my thoughts on why the culture is toxic within the organization.

Bottom line up front, neither the union nor PO management cares about employees, they both (like politicians) only care about furthering their agendas and scoring a win. What is best for the PO or employees is secondary. It's like being a child with shared custody by both parents.

I will be resigning in January after the holidays. I am waiting until then because I care about my fellow employees and we all have holiday plans and if one of us goes away the others will have no time off. It will also allow me to have the annual leave cash out on next years taxes.

The long story. I work as a PTF clerk in a level 18 office. The office had a NTFT and PTF position when I was hired. In Feb 2020 the NTFT clerk retired and the position was in the process of bidding when Post Office management decided to get rid of the NTFT position and require our office to beg for help from surrounding offices. It was now one PTF clerk and an office with around 50 clerk hours. The union decided to grieve the elimination of the NTFT position and that began around May 2020.

From May 2020 to around June 2021 nothing happened, couldn't even reach a union rep and the PO wasn't saying anything. Finally the PM was able to have a PTF position added to the office and a PTF transferred in. Fast forward to today, the grievance is finally being settled and the NTFT position is being granted.

This decision hurts both the current PTFs and the office in general. No one in the office wants the NTFT position but it was made clear by the union that they don't care about what the employees want. That is actually what the steward said who initiated the grievance. They are fighting for the position and the position alone. The best option for the operation of the office is to have 2 PTFs.

Going forward the new NTFT position will go to bid. Only a NTFT can apply for the job, neither PTF is able to bid unless it goes unfilled. If it is filled there will now be a new NTFT and 2 PTF. The PTFs will have to split 15 hours so 7.5 hours each. One is going to try and go 204B, but I will be resigning.

I am the senior PTF so if the job goes unfilled, I will be required to accept it or resign. If I do accept it the other PTF will resign or go 204B because they won't be able to pay bills on 15 hours per week. To be clear, I won't work the NTFT job, it's not what I hired on to do. When I resign the job will have to go to bid again and the other PTF still might not get it.

If I could remain in my current position I would continue to do so, but that is not going to be an option. Unfortunately the most likely end result is that both of the current PTFs will resign from jobs they are happy with so the union can chalk up a win. The PM is going to be left cleaning up the mess. This PM is one of the good ones which I have found to be rare.

As a bonus, I was also told if I end up in the NTFT position I may be incur a debt for the hours I worked during this 20 months because the NTFT position is being back dated and they are paid a lesser hourly rate.

I am a retired army signal and finance officer with 2 decades of leadership experience and a degree in technology management. I simply wanted a part time job to get me out of the house a few times a week but it is no longer worth the headache of being in an organization that lacks leadership and training and fosters such a culture of us vs them (mgt vs union). People don't quit jobs, they quit working for who they can't stand to work for anymore. I think I have been an asset to the post office, but in the end it doesn't matter if my boss wants to keep me or if I want to stay.

Anyway, I don't know if that ramble makes any sense, but wanted to share it. Ok, open the flood gates.


Just resign asap and get it over with.

The end.
Ihatemanagement  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, November 16, 2021 9:25:04 PM(UTC)
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Thank you for your service! Everything you said about postal culture is true for both sides. I’m not sure how they’re going to fix the issues that plague the stations. Everyone but FTRs are completely crapped on and taken for granted. There’s no accountability on either side which has led to the issues you’ve outlined. You’re doing the right thing. You’re a much better person than me as I’d be enjoying the holidays with my family and letting the postal service suffer. You owe them nothing.
z165012  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, November 17, 2021 7:02:52 AM(UTC)
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as an FTR i get crapped on plenty too...
Ihatemanagement  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, November 17, 2021 3:17:31 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: z165012 Go to Quoted Post
as an FTR i get crapped on plenty too...


You’re guaranteed 40 hours a week though. You’re not dependent on certain circumstances to happen/not happen to make sure your income is viable for living. You could easily get on work restrictions and work 40/week for the rest of your career. A PTF or non career will never have that kind of work/life balance. This isn’t to take away from your suffering as I think the issues that plague the stations may be the downfall of the postal service.
P0stalW0rker  
#8 Posted : Thursday, November 18, 2021 1:20:40 AM(UTC)
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Thank you for your service! Your credentials are far beyond the average PO worker, you should have left sooner. It’s a broken system and that’s why PO workers are the lowest paid Federal workers. Scum of the barrel. Besides upper management no one is making real money.

I quit too a few years ago, but your far more of a gentlemen then I am. I got FMLA and called out all the time when I’d be tired from school. Then I called out when I was too tired to come in from shopping around for government jobs. Finally got a gig making far more money and just road all my time out then when I sucked the system for all I could get I finally quit.

Don’t fall for the pension and benefits. If your young with a college degree or have military experience or any type of credentials that can get you a real career you should strongly consider that route.
mtnstyne  
#9 Posted : Thursday, November 18, 2021 4:01:24 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: P0stalW0rker Go to Quoted Post
It’s a broken system and that’s why PO workers are the lowest paid Federal workers. Scum of the barrel. Besides upper management no one is making real money.


Actually the rural carriers in my office are bringing in $80k-$90k/year working roughly 30-40 hours per week with their mileage.

Edited by user Thursday, November 18, 2021 4:01:55 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Randy1  
#10 Posted : Thursday, November 18, 2021 7:54:51 AM(UTC)
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Post Office sux as a work place in so many ways.

Get out while you can and don't look back. IMHO

As far as the union. They defend contract violations. Unfortunately many workers get the shaft. Sad but true

canyoneer  
#11 Posted : Thursday, November 18, 2021 12:36:48 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: mtnstyne Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: P0stalW0rker Go to Quoted Post
It’s a broken system and that’s why PO workers are the lowest paid Federal workers. Scum of the barrel. Besides upper management no one is making real money.


Where did you get this info from? Letter carriers now top out at close to 70k base pay. Other crafts are in the 60k+ range. All for doing manual labor. I don’t consider those salaries low especially when compared to similar jobs in the private sector. You have to also consider many employees in other federal agencies have advanced degrees and under the GS pay system they are rewarded for their education.


canyoneer  
#12 Posted : Thursday, November 18, 2021 4:36:03 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: mtnstyne Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: P0stalW0rker Go to Quoted Post
It’s a broken system and that’s why PO workers are the lowest paid Federal workers. Scum of the barrel. Besides upper management no one is making real money.


Actually the rural carriers in my office are bringing in $80k-$90k/year working roughly 30-40 hours per week with their mileage.


Where did you get this info from? Letter Carriers now top out at around 70k a year base. Other crafts 60k+. All for performing manual labor. Pretty decent pay for that type of work.
roger.d  
#13 Posted : Thursday, November 18, 2021 4:45:26 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: mtnstyne Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: P0stalW0rker Go to Quoted Post
It’s a broken system and that’s why PO workers are the lowest paid Federal workers. Scum of the barrel. Besides upper management no one is making real money.


Actually the rural carriers in my office are bringing in $80k-$90k/year working roughly 30-40 hours per week with their mileage.


Anyone that includes the mileage in their yearly compensation is fooling themselves.
Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They always run out of other people’s money. --Margaret Thatcher
roger.d  
#14 Posted : Thursday, November 18, 2021 5:59:14 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: mtnstyne Go to Quoted Post
This post is just to share my thoughts on why (the main reason) I am resigning from the post office in January and my thoughts on why the culture is toxic within the organization.

Bottom line up front, neither the union nor PO management cares about employees, they both (like politicians) only care about furthering their agendas and scoring a win. What is best for the PO or employees is secondary. It's like being a child with shared custody by both parents.

I will be resigning in January after the holidays. I am waiting until then because I care about my fellow employees and we all have holiday plans and if one of us goes away the others will have no time off. It will also allow me to have the annual leave cash out on next years taxes.

The long story. I work as a PTF clerk in a level 18 office. The office had a NTFT and PTF position when I was hired. In Feb 2020 the NTFT clerk retired and the position was in the process of bidding when Post Office management decided to get rid of the NTFT position and require our office to beg for help from surrounding offices. It was now one PTF clerk and an office with around 50 clerk hours. The union decided to grieve the elimination of the NTFT position and that began around May 2020.

From May 2020 to around June 2021 nothing happened, couldn't even reach a union rep and the PO wasn't saying anything. Finally the PM was able to have a PTF position added to the office and a PTF transferred in. Fast forward to today, the grievance is finally being settled and the NTFT position is being granted.

This decision hurts both the current PTFs and the office in general. No one in the office wants the NTFT position but it was made clear by the union that they don't care about what the employees want. That is actually what the steward said who initiated the grievance. They are fighting for the position and the position alone. The best option for the operation of the office is to have 2 PTFs.

Going forward the new NTFT position will go to bid. Only a NTFT can apply for the job, neither PTF is able to bid unless it goes unfilled. If it is filled there will now be a new NTFT and 2 PTF. The PTFs will have to split 15 hours so 7.5 hours each. One is going to try and go 204B, but I will be resigning.

I am the senior PTF so if the job goes unfilled, I will be required to accept it or resign. If I do accept it the other PTF will resign or go 204B because they won't be able to pay bills on 15 hours per week. To be clear, I won't work the NTFT job, it's not what I hired on to do. When I resign the job will have to go to bid again and the other PTF still might not get it.

If I could remain in my current position I would continue to do so, but that is not going to be an option. Unfortunately the most likely end result is that both of the current PTFs will resign from jobs they are happy with so the union can chalk up a win. The PM is going to be left cleaning up the mess. This PM is one of the good ones which I have found to be rare.

As a bonus, I was also told if I end up in the NTFT position I may be incur a debt for the hours I worked during this 20 months because the NTFT position is being back dated and they are paid a lesser hourly rate.

I am a retired army signal and finance officer with 2 decades of leadership experience and a degree in technology management. I simply wanted a part time job to get me out of the house a few times a week but it is no longer worth the headache of being in an organization that lacks leadership and training and fosters such a culture of us vs them (mgt vs union). People don't quit jobs, they quit working for who they can't stand to work for anymore. I think I have been an asset to the post office, but in the end it doesn't matter if my boss wants to keep me or if I want to stay.

Anyway, I don't know if that ramble makes any sense, but wanted to share it. Ok, open the flood gates.


I commend you on your sense of duty to your co-workers. Said to say, but you can see it in the responses, people with our sense of duty are hard to come by in today's world.
Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They always run out of other people’s money. --Margaret Thatcher
mtnstyne  
#15 Posted : Friday, November 19, 2021 3:54:40 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: canyoneer Go to Quoted Post
Where did you get this info from? Letter Carriers now top out at around 70k a year base. Other crafts 60k+. All for performing manual labor. Pretty decent pay for that type of work.


From their paychecks. You can google postal employee pay and get any information, it's public record. Here is a clip from my office for a rural carrier.

RURAL CARRIER 0 $36.91 Hourly

This carrier has a 45 hour route. This works out to over $80k/year. Add in about 10k for mileage reimbursement that of course goes towards upkeep and fuel costs. All of our rural routes are 45-46 hour routes.

Edited by user Friday, November 19, 2021 3:59:22 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

canyoneer  
#16 Posted : Friday, November 19, 2021 9:32:23 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: mtnstyne Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: canyoneer Go to Quoted Post
Where did you get this info from? Letter Carriers now top out at around 70k a year base. Other crafts 60k+. All for performing manual labor. Pretty decent pay for that type of work.


From their paychecks. You can google postal employee pay and get any information, it's public record. Here is a clip from my office for a rural carrier.

RURAL CARRIER 0 $36.91 Hourly

This carrier has a 45 hour route. This works out to over $80k/year. Add in about 10k for mileage reimbursement that of course goes towards upkeep and fuel costs. All of our rural routes are 45-46 hour routes.


Sorry I wasn’t responding to you. I was responding to postalworker’s comment on postal employees being some of the lowest paid federal workers. I don’t agree.
P0stalW0rker  
#17 Posted : Tuesday, November 23, 2021 1:32:08 PM(UTC)
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Dude 90K divided by 52 weeks divided by 40 hours comes out to $43.26 hourly. Please show me a rural carrier making $43.26 an hour without overtime. Your factoring overtime into your base salary which is nuts. I thought the goal was to make more money just for showing up to work not killing yourself and not being their physically for your family by working more then 40 hours on a weekly basis. As far as adding the mileage pay into your salary and not calculating the ware and tear on your personal vehicle.


60k-70k a year is modern minimum wage lol. You guys sound like the kid in high school who was happy with a C+. You should aspire to be more even if it’s not for you, do it for your family.

Their a website that shows all of the postal workers salaries if you type in their names. It would shock you how little supervisors and managers make. Most postal workers base their lives around possible overtime and completely neglect their children and family for time and a half.
Ihatemanagement  
#18 Posted : Wednesday, November 24, 2021 6:09:58 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: P0stalW0rker Go to Quoted Post
Dude 90K divided by 52 weeks divided by 40 hours comes out to $43.26 hourly. Please show me a rural carrier making $43.26 an hour without overtime. Your factoring overtime into your base salary which is nuts. I thought the goal was to make more money just for showing up to work not killing yourself and not being their physically for your family by working more then 40 hours on a weekly basis. As far as adding the mileage pay into your salary and not calculating the ware and tear on your personal vehicle.


60k-70k a year is modern minimum wage lol. You guys sound like the kid in high school who was happy with a C+. You should aspire to be more even if it’s not for you, do it for your family.

Their a website that shows all of the postal workers salaries if you type in their names. It would shock you how little supervisors and managers make. Most postal workers base their lives around possible overtime and completely neglect their children and family for time and a half.


A lot of postal employees are financial illiterate as well. Gambling is huge in my plant. People have to work overtime because their bad habits consume all of their money. Ask them how much they put in their tsp and it’s 5% or below. They have no idea what an IRA is. HSA? Get outta here. Now that volume has declined and stabilized to normal levels, overtime has been cut and those type of people are very upset.

Even if financial literacy is taught, because salaries are low for a prolonged amount of time at the beginning, people will not be able to max their TSP and IRAs unless they dedicate themselves to a low budget and live well below their means which most aren’t going to do.

I disagree with 60-70k being modern MW. You can live a pretty good life off of that in most locations around the country. I do think locality pay(or TCOLA) may have to be introduced in more places outside of the few that get it now. It can be adjusted annually or bi-annually. The problem is it takes new hires 15+ years( non career plus career) to make that 60-70k. You also need to look at our competition and their wage and benefits packages. You can’t compare manual labor salaries like ours to tech companies or some random tradies and expect an actual conversation.
mtnstyne  
#19 Posted : Wednesday, November 24, 2021 3:13:50 PM(UTC)
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Rural carriers aren't paid hourly and they don't work 40 hours. They are paid evaluated time which means no matter how long it takes them to do their route they get paid the evaluated time. This carrier is paid $36.91 for a 46k route (46 hours per week). If you do the math that works out to over $88k per year BEFORE any mileage money. They admit they make money on that as well at least a few hundred per month.

This carrier averages working around 35 hours per week so if you redo the math, that means about $55/hr. That's pretty good money for a high school graduate with little training and no advanced education.

As far as $60-70k it's hardly minimum wage. It works out to $33/hr.

Edited by user Wednesday, November 24, 2021 3:18:47 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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