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Internal Revenue Service

As a bureau of the Department of the Treasury and as one of the world's most efficient tax administrators, the IRS role is to help the large majority of compliant taxpayers with the tax law, while ensuring that the minority who are unwilling to comply pay their fair share. (Source: www.irs.gov)

This forum will allow you to share and ask job-related questions about this bureau. This is NOT the place to ask tax questions.

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Red  
#1 Posted : Friday, February 18, 2022 12:40:11 PM(UTC)

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I've seen more articles lately where our leaders refer to us as forensic accountants. To me, that is a put-down. It sounds like a Revenue Agent or an expert witness, not a Criminal Investigator GS1811. Forensic accountants are series 0510, same as Revenue Agents and other government accountants; they are not law enforcement officers. There are people in Congress (and some in IRS) who would like to disarm us and take away our 1811. Let's not give them ammunition. Personally I like the term Treasury agent. Food for thought- especially for those in SES.
1811BAMF  
#2 Posted : Friday, February 18, 2022 3:48:47 PM(UTC)
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IRS is one bad shoot away from losing their firearms. I’m willing to bet 70% of management was involved in the civil side prior to coming over to CI and never actually had any significant fed law enforcement experience from agency’s that are actual law enforcement.

Does the FBI call their white collar squads forensic accountants? Hell no. The FBI actually hires competent forensic accountants that assist the special agents and provides them support. Must be nice.

Edited by user Friday, February 18, 2022 3:51:13 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

FrankJr  
#3 Posted : Friday, February 18, 2022 3:49:53 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Red Go to Quoted Post
I've seen more articles lately where our leaders refer to us as forensic accountants. To me, that is a put-down. It sounds like a Revenue Agent or an expert witness, not a Criminal Investigator GS1811. Forensic accountants are series 0510, same as Revenue Agents and other government accountants; they are not law enforcement officers. There are people in Congress (and some in IRS) who would like to disarm us and take away our 1811. Let's not give them ammunition. Personally I like the term Treasury agent. Food for thought- especially for those in SES.


The IRS Special Agents are often referred to as "accountants with guns".
dubyac  
#4 Posted : Friday, February 18, 2022 5:22:37 PM(UTC)
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Every year leadership says how great we are and how proud we should be of our work, then in the same breath go on about how we're on the verge of losing our guns, badges, and cars if we don't "shape up."

Red  
#5 Posted : Friday, February 18, 2022 6:19:09 PM(UTC)

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I tried to recruit people with backgrounds besides accounting- a state cop with a finance degree, a military cop with a minor in accounting, a Secret Service agent. All were beat out by CPAs, one who made a career and the other who quit in three years. It does not take a CPA to be successful in this job, although it looks good to a jury. I don't know what we are recruiting these days. But if we sell the job as a forensic accountant, we are shortchanging our history and ignoring good people. Those early T-Men were former Postal Inspectors and one went on to head Secret Service. Mike Malone was a former cop. Some of the best agents I worked with had the minimum accounting requirement but other valuable experience.
dubyac  
#6 Posted : Friday, February 18, 2022 6:33:51 PM(UTC)
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I don’t think we’re selling the job as a forensic accountant. At least not based on the career events I’ve attended. I don’t think a CPA is necessary either.

I was just at FLETC and it looks like the new classes are in better shape: no more billowing red polos or hand-me-down BDUs: now it’s black athletic shirts and new tan cargo pants. New enforcement gear, and not the cheap nylon stuff I got issued only a few years ago.

I think it’d be great if we had more former LEOs applying with us, but I think we have difficulty attracting those with our requirements.
Red  
#7 Posted : Friday, February 18, 2022 6:36:02 PM(UTC)

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Forgot to add: The Chief (SAC) who got OCDETF started in parts of the Midwest was a former NYPD Chief of Detectives. The agents loved working for him.
Red  
#8 Posted : Friday, February 18, 2022 7:14:01 PM(UTC)

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dubyac- that's good to hear. I hope they get some more diversity of backgrounds. Maybe even waive or modify some of the requirements to consider experience. I bet any USSS agent or fraud detective would be great on ID theft/ refund fraud. Any idea what they are getting now?
1811BAMF  
#9 Posted : Friday, February 18, 2022 7:32:07 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dubyac Go to Quoted Post
I don’t think we’re selling the job as a forensic accountant. At least not based on the career events I’ve attended. I don’t think a CPA is necessary either.

I was just at FLETC and it looks like the new classes are in better shape: no more billowing red polos or hand-me-down BDUs: now it’s black athletic shirts and new tan cargo pants. New enforcement gear, and not the cheap nylon stuff I got issued only a few years ago.

I think it’d be great if we had more former LEOs applying with us, but I think we have difficulty attracting those with our requirements.


the best agents we have are ones who had no connection to civil and can't quote the irm. those are the horses that actually get ***** done and get ridden by management and unfortunately leave for other opportunities. It's unfortunate...the good ones get tired of carrying the load when the RA who took the job for the leap and a gride slugs it out and milks a 120k tax case for five years. God forbid you ask them to work a drug case. They'd ***** their pants just going into the hood with the DEA..
dubyac  
#10 Posted : Friday, February 18, 2022 7:37:09 PM(UTC)
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Red - EIther HSGI or Wilder Tactical gear: nylon belt with a cobra buckle (that's not as stiff as a 2x4), kydex mag and handcuff pouches, weapon light compatible holsters.

1811BAMF - Preaching to the choir...Know plenty of slugs.
Catspajamas1811  
#11 Posted : Friday, February 18, 2022 8:01:19 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: 1811BAMF Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: dubyac Go to Quoted Post
I don’t think we’re selling the job as a forensic accountant. At least not based on the career events I’ve attended. I don’t think a CPA is necessary either.

I was just at FLETC and it looks like the new classes are in better shape: no more billowing red polos or hand-me-down BDUs: now it’s black athletic shirts and new tan cargo pants. New enforcement gear, and not the cheap nylon stuff I got issued only a few years ago.

I think it’d be great if we had more former LEOs applying with us, but I think we have difficulty attracting those with our requirements.


the best agents we have are ones who had no connection to civil and can't quote the irm. those are the horses that actually get ***** done and get ridden by management and unfortunately leave for other opportunities. It's unfortunate...the good ones get tired of carrying the load when the RA who took the job for the leap and a gride slugs it out and milks a 120k tax case for five years. God forbid you ask them to work a drug case. They'd ***** their pants just going into the hood with the DEA..


Current RA that wants to leave the civil side and be a special agent - currently in the application process and took the KaSE a few weeks ago. I don’t feel like this describes me and I also don’t want it to me or to be perceived that way. Best advice that any of you would give to a RA coming into an 1811 position.
dubyac  
#12 Posted : Friday, February 18, 2022 8:11:30 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Catspajamas1811 Go to Quoted Post

Current RA that wants to leave the civil side and be a special agent - currently in the application process and took the KaSE a few weeks ago. I don’t feel like this describes me and I also don’t want it to me or to be perceived that way. Best advice that any of you would give to a RA coming into an 1811 position.


A lot of agents come from the civil side. A lot of them are good. But there’s a subset of former civil side agents that took the job to get GS-13 pay, LEAP, a car. And always seem to be out to lunch.

Be proactive about your cases, if it’s not viable, close it and get out. Move on to the next.

thanks 1 user thanked dubyac for this useful post.
Catspajamas1811 on 2/18/2022(UTC)
1811BAMF  
#13 Posted : Friday, February 18, 2022 8:38:11 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dubyac Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Catspajamas1811 Go to Quoted Post

Current RA that wants to leave the civil side and be a special agent - currently in the application process and took the KaSE a few weeks ago. I don’t feel like this describes me and I also don’t want it to me or to be perceived that way. Best advice that any of you would give to a RA coming into an 1811 position.


A lot of agents come from the civil side. A lot of them are good. But there’s a subset of former civil side agents that took the job to get GS-13 pay, LEAP, a car. And always seem to be out to lunch.

Be proactive about your cases, if it’s not viable, close it and get out. Move on to the next.



Yep. Just because you grew up in your career giving someone a tax bill doesn’t always mean it’s the end all be all. It’s always tax tax tax from mgt until the annual report comes out and the only thing you read about is case work involving money laundering and seizures.

Edited by user Friday, February 18, 2022 8:40:12 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 1 user thanked 1811BAMF for this useful post.
Catspajamas1811 on 2/18/2022(UTC)
IRSSpecialAgent_1Day  
#14 Posted : Saturday, February 19, 2022 5:47:50 AM(UTC)
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I had a discussion with a new agent that said she was scared of the police. Mind....blown.
Red  
#15 Posted : Saturday, February 19, 2022 6:03:51 AM(UTC)

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And I knew a special agent who thought O.J. was innocent! Reinforces my suspicion about our recruiting. (He was a former RA). DUBYAC-when I asked what are we getting, I meant recruits at Glynco. Mostly other IRS, or outside hires, CPAs, vets, LEOs, etc.? As to the way our brass portrays us, I'd rather be pictured as Kevin Costner in The Untouchables than as Stephen Root in Office Space.
dubyac  
#16 Posted : Saturday, February 19, 2022 8:41:43 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Red Go to Quoted Post
And I knew a special agent who thought O.J. was innocent! Reinforces my suspicion about our recruiting. (He was a former RA). DUBYAC-when I asked what are we getting, I meant recruits at Glynco. Mostly other IRS, or outside hires, CPAs, vets, LEOs, etc.? As to the way our brass portrays us, I'd rather be pictured as Kevin Costner in The Untouchables than as Stephen Root in Office Space.


I only saw one class: state trooper, ex-HSI, bank examiner, among others. Skewed more outside hires. A lot more law enforcement bearing than I remembered in my class.


Someone in my training class was ex-civil side and definitely Stephen Root. Thankfully they got washed out.
Hmmmm  
#17 Posted : Saturday, February 19, 2022 9:59:17 AM(UTC)
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I correct anyone who says accountants with guns in my presence. It seems to be a plea to accounting students that even if you never thought about law enforcement before and figured you would be an accountant we can turn you into a criminal investigator.
It's an underwhelming statement buts it's printed on some of our old schwag.

I've never considered myself an accountant, barely met the education requirements. I had more LE experience than accounting experience when I applied. I had even more experience with administering federal law and regulations and making legal decisions that had real effects on people. My training class had 6 agents with some form of LE background whether current or prior to what they were doing upon entry with CI. We also had CPAs, attorneys, public accountants, civil side folks, bankers, and someone who just really liked spreadsheets.

While recruiting I have had people ask me if the job is really just forensic accounting. I steer the conversation to the need to understand basic accounting principles but that there are many parts to the job.
professorx  
#18 Posted : Saturday, February 19, 2022 10:40:13 AM(UTC)
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How many gung ho types do y'all have in CI? My experience working in corrections, parole, and government security is that the pretend tough guys will try to make the job more than it is because they don't meet the qualifications to get hired for the positions they want. They're also the officers who put their colleagues in danger because they unnecessarily escalate situations and can't even fight. Sometimes, they can get the more active LE jobs, but they don't really have the guts to do them. The one good thing about corrections, parole and probation departments that don't allow their officers to carry weapons, and even the RO position is that you're forced to develop good communication skills or you risk getting your behind beat. I carried a gun for several years, but some of my unarmed jobs were more dangerous.

Those who can pass the physical abilities test and get a clearance will be able to leave for the DEA, FBI, U.S. Marshals, ATF, etc. Those who can't will complain at the IRS for 20 years. How many of those types do you have?
Red  
#19 Posted : Saturday, February 19, 2022 11:17:44 AM(UTC)

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It sounds like we are getting some good people. I know the ones I worked with were good, especially those in OCDETF. I just get bummed when I hear "forensic accountants" from the brass, and think it attracts people who have a false impression of the job.
Red  
#20 Posted : Saturday, February 19, 2022 11:35:49 AM(UTC)

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And it does nothing to protect our 1811. In fact it does the opposite.
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